Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#811

Post by oxymoron » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 10:01 AM UTC

kumarski wrote: post #739

I wrote a brief blog post on some of the major challenges to get this going. Musk's hesitancy to a deadline is great. :) It makes sense, hard to predict the future. http://engineersf.com/12-reasons-spacex-wont-fly-a-manned-mi... There's a ton of cool problems lurking around the corner. I hope humanity backs the public part of this public-private partnership. 1. Cargo Capacity — Scaling is Hard. 2. Proper Maintenance…

Seems like SpaceX agrees with you on the difficulties with the fuel tank, with Musk calling that the single hardest part. Rather cool that they've already made progress on that though!

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#812

Post by simonh » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 10:02 AM UTC

kchoudhu wrote: post #767

peeters wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just finished reading these books for what seems like the millionth time, and Mr. Musk hasn't even begun to answer the questions they raise. What is the legal structure going to be on the 1MM person colony? Who gets to go? What are the transplants allowed to do there? Who rules? Who do the rulers answer to? Are we going to Terraform Mars? If yes, under whose auspices and with what restrictions? Musk has basically…

> Musk has basically stated that he has no interest in being involved at that end. I don't think you get to control all transport to an isolated colony and disclaim all responsibility for the social cohesion of said colony.

Disclaim all responsibility, or decline to unilaterally impose your own?

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#813

Post by restalis » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 10:10 AM UTC

randomsearch wrote: post #769

mikeash wrote: post #148

Some of the comments here make me think of crabs in a pot pulling down the ones who try to climb out. Nobody's making you participate in this venture. If you don't like it, then you're free to go do whatever it is you do like. You might think Musk could better direct his efforts and resources elsewhere, but most other billionaires don't do anything all that interesting, they just invest their money in mundane stuff,…

I think the problem here is one of misanthropy. I'm not saying it applies to all those commenting negatively, but one commonly held philosophy amongst some of my geek friends is this logic: "the world is terrible and people are terrible" -> "there's no point trying to improve things" -> "I don't need to improve things" It's essentially an argument that allows people to live a defeatist (selfish?) life without feeling…

I am upvoting you for your insightful comment, but I still think that in your comment's second part your speculation goes in a wrong direction.

"things are good or bad. Elon Musk is a hero or a charlatan or he can't achieve what he says he will and he will fail and therefore it's pointless"

On the granular level, considered from only one problem's prospective, decisions actually have a binary value. For a supposed genius like Musk it's no wonder why there's a backlash for the wrong ones. The judgment itself has a scale of tolerance for its subjects (even though this is harder to admit openly) and exactly this high bar inherently set for highly potential, highly resourceful people like genius billionaires is what we see here. This is a good thing, I think.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#814

Post by Hondor » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 10:11 AM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #174

BurningFrog wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humanity can work on more than one project. We're 7 billion people.

That point is not in dispute. What I think would be better than spending the amount of effort and time to get to Mars, which I am unconvinced solves our long term problems in any way, would be to better pool those resources into solving the root issues that afflict humanity like aging, pathogens, degenerative diseases, the need for so much food, the pollution we create, and the resources we consume. Working towards c…

Just about all human effort is directed towards things which aren't curing disease and downloading our brains to a computer. So it's not SpaceX to complain about. It's the corner store and the hairdresser down the road. Collectively they're all wasting far more effort on far more useless activities than SpaceX ever will.

More directly to your point - Mars solves the risk to our species of a comet strike. Musk mentioned extinction events in the video. They've happened before and will happen again. All the health and cognitive improvement in the world won't save us from that.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#815

Post by teabee89 » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 10:12 AM UTC

jernfrost wrote: post #810

mikeash wrote: post #148

Some of the comments here make me think of crabs in a pot pulling down the ones who try to climb out. Nobody's making you participate in this venture. If you don't like it, then you're free to go do whatever it is you do like. You might think Musk could better direct his efforts and resources elsewhere, but most other billionaires don't do anything all that interesting, they just invest their money in mundane stuff,…

Agree, I wrote a medium article about exactly this phenomenon partly inspired by you: https://medium.com/@Jernfrost/the-crab-people-and-space-expl... I've been annoyed by this attitude for quite some time now. You see it all the time. Same deal with Tesla an Model S. Because not everybody can afford it, and because not all power is renewable an electric car like Tesla Model S seems like some sort of terrible crime. W…

I agree with you a lot. Thanks for saying this, it's been annoying me too. Lots of anti-Elonism in France as well.

And even with solar power, I've heard criticism, stating that it's not renewable because you need rare earths possibly for solar panels (i don't know) but especially for batteries. And that it's only effective enough in regions where there is a lot of sun, even though Elon claims that it would work fine even in the UK.

Action > Words even when it's about physics.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#816

Post by grecy » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 10:12 AM UTC

intrasight wrote: post #742

grecy wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk just answered a question that said you can come back if you want to. "The spaceship is coming back anyway, you can get on if you want. Free"

And if the company goes belly-up while you're there?

> And if the company goes belly-up while you're there?

The same thing that would have happened to anyone on the moon if they had lander failure, or to anyone on the ISS if they have catastrophic failure.

For that matter, the same thing that would have happened to the First Fleet if they had landed on Australia and been slaughtered in 10 minutes.

Of course it's dangerous. Of course there is a real risk you won't come back. That's not a reason to not go, and each individual can make that choice on their own.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#817

Post by lafar6502 » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 10:16 AM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #148

Some of the comments here make me think of crabs in a pot pulling down the ones who try to climb out. Nobody's making you participate in this venture. If you don't like it, then you're free to go do whatever it is you do like. You might think Musk could better direct his efforts and resources elsewhere, but most other billionaires don't do anything all that interesting, they just invest their money in mundane stuff,…

Oh come on, if you dont want people to criticize why do you expect everyone to show enthusiasm? Some skepticism will not pull Musk down if he has the means to deliver what he's selling, and no amount of enthusiasm will make a pig fly.

This just suggests Elon chose to run forward to avoid any questions asked about the current and the past. He didn't revolutionize anything yet, made a few small dents in status quo but still far away from his plans and visions. Why talk about interplanetary travel in 5 years if SpaceX rocket has just made a single successful flight to Earths orbit? Why talk about revolutionizing transportation if Tesla cars are just a tiny percentage of all automobiles without clear grow path beyond fanboys? Same with battery industry - nothing meaningful so far, just plans and visions. Deliver first then build on that...now even a single critical remark about Tesla can make the company value go down and Elon mad - get some solid foundation first and then look at the stars.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#818

Post by JMCQ87 » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 10:23 AM UTC

codeulike wrote: post #70

dsabanin wrote: post #41

What are we going to do on Mars? Live in a plastic box? Send in a bunch of slaves to mine minerals in insufferable conditions? I don't get it.

Watch the end of the video. I think he intends to terraform it. Edit: looks like he's aiming for a city of 1m people in the short term, Terraforming in the long term.

Short term is relative, I suppose.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#819

Post by MichaelMoser123 » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 10:24 AM UTC

mintplant wrote: post #258

mikeash wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're free to advocate for other things, but most of the critics aren't doing this, they're just shitting all over this idea and then making vague waves in the general direction of other ideas. Further, why so much focus on this particular billionaire, who at least is focusing pretty hard on driving progress even if you don't agree on the precise direction, and ignoring all the ones just wasting it, or being activel…

> Further, why so much focus on this particular billionaire, Personally, I'm worried by the fact that it's a billionaire driving this, nevermind which one in particular. If and when SpaceX colonizes Mars, what sort of life will the people up there live? Will it be a Musk dictatorship? A corporate fiefdom? Rich people remaking society in their own image wasn't exactly the space dream I grew up with.

> Will it be a Musk dictatorship? A corporate fiefdom? Rich people remaking society in their own image wasn't exactly the space dream I grew up with.

i see the possibility, with corporations there is always the option of quitting the job - that's the limiting factor, so that it can't get really totalitarian as it doesn't have the teeth for that. However you don't have the option of quitting up on Mars. There will probably be shortages and huge problems during the initial stage, so you might end up with a highly stratified society (provided that there are no robots that could do all the work for us).

Now there is always the option of a benevolent dictator who will actually quit after two terms; it has happened before. They might just as well put up reasonable institutions of government given that we have this tradition down here on earth.

i guess the colonists will not just silently comply with a dictatorship (that's a key requirement for keeping this system), just because they are not used to this sort of governance.

Re: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species [video]

#820

Post by Hondor » Wed, Sep 28, 2016, 10:25 AM UTC

stevebmark wrote: post #626

I don't mean to nitpick but is Elon always this bad of a presenter? He sounds sickly and hungover and unpracticed. A strange performance for probably one of the most important ventures in recent human history.

Sounding sickly and unpracticed might be a problem in a high school speech contest but here he still gave an engaging talk that clearly a lot of people enjoyed listening to. So it wasn't bad. Just an unconventional style. Try listening to political speeches from half a century ago and see how offensively arrogant they sound, or Chinese speeches today. Fashions change and it's not bad as long as people enjoy it.