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Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

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Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#801

Post by sergiosgc »

m_mueller wrote: post #649
jacquesm wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you could go on all day but this thread is about microsoft. Apple's products are not welcome here because of their walled garden approach and Google has done far worse than making a faux-pas in the net neutrality debate. Agreed on the buying up innovative start-ups and then killing them off, that's really bad and acqui-hires are hurting all start-ups.

Im curious, can you really get by without MS, Google and Apple? No LLVM based products for you? No Webkit? No CUPS? No V8? If you do use some of these projects, where's the difference from an Open Sourced .NET?

Hmm, yes I can. Gcc, gecko, cups predates apple, spidermonkey...

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#802

Post by maccard »

jacquesm wrote: post #546
runjake wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fairly weak and circumstantial list, in my opinion. Also, name a player that isn't equally or more abusive? If you mention Apple, Google, or Amazon, I'm going to disagree.

> This is a fairly weak and circumstantial list, in my opinion. That's fine by me. I think they should really wise up and start to play nice. If IBM could do it then Microsoft can too. > Also, name a player that isn't equally or more abusive? Why, does that excuse them? > If you mention Apple, Google, or Amazon, I'm going to disagree. I would agree with that myself, so I won't be naming those.

On the IBM front I think you need to reconsider. http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-02/ibm-says-justice... (apologies for mobile link). I've read your comments throughout this thread, and am curious, what will MS have to do to get back in your good books? As far as I'm concerned, they're far less shady than google, oracle, yet your own views seem to be against giving them a chance.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#803

Post by MrBra »

alkonaut wrote: post #784
MrBra wrote: post #771

.NET newbie here. Could someone explain me if thanks to this it is currently possible to write GUI multiplatform apps?

It's possible but the windows ui libs like Windows.Forms and WPF won't be included in the core. You have always been able to use monk+Qt and this will likely improve now. See e.g MonoDevelop.

But isn't Mono supposed to merge with .NET now? So in the end will I be able to use VS to this purpose?

Also I am seeing that last version of https://code.google.com/p/qt4dotnet/ is 4 years old?

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#804

Post by [deleted] »

alkonaut wrote: post #784
MrBra wrote: post #771

.NET newbie here. Could someone explain me if thanks to this it is currently possible to write GUI multiplatform apps?

It's possible but the windows ui libs like Windows.Forms and WPF won't be included in the core. You have always been able to use monk+Qt and this will likely improve now. See e.g MonoDevelop.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#805

Post by 72deluxe »

mcv wrote: post #788
jpgvm wrote: post #61

I'm a hardcore *nix guy but boy do I love me some C#. Up until now it's been the best language I have worked with but the worst platform due to it's lack of 'nice things' that we just expect from languages/ecosystems these days. Where 'nice things' is defined as being open-source, having open-source ecosystem of developer tools etc. This isn't so much the beginning (as good stuff has been happening for a couple of ye…

This is my impression too. I'm not terribly familiar with C#, and used to avoid anything from Microsoft like the plague, but a lot of stuff I hear about C# sounds like it's a bit ahead of Java. (Really, Java should be more like Groovy, if you ask me.) But the JVM platform is great, and I'm just not going to get locked into a MS ecosystem. But if MS opens up to the rest of the world, well, that changes things consider…

I think you're in a niche avoiding Microsoft technologies. It isn't so much as Microsoft opening up to the world (which is true to some extent) as embracing the smaller market shares of Linux + Mac OS. Windows market share is colossal, and C# is a big thing in Windows land, even more important than C++.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#806

Post by 72deluxe »

jpgvm wrote: post #327
aerique wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What languages have you got experience with that you feel C# is the best language you have worked with? And what makes it such a good language for you?

Generics, Partial Classes, awesome Reflection API, Lambda syntax, LINQ, C/C++ compatibility, async/await, concurrency primitives, etc. I have worked with prettier languages, for instance I have picked up Haskell recently, I have also worked with faster languages, C was my forte for many years and I have worked with languages in the GSD category like Ruby and Python. C# is appealing not because of some feature that it…

Are Strings a separate entity to built-in types like they are in Java? If so, I find that behaviour odd and welcome C++'s "a user-defined type is not different to a built-in type" approach

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#807

Post by vorg »

mcv wrote: post #788
jpgvm wrote: post #61

I'm a hardcore *nix guy but boy do I love me some C#. Up until now it's been the best language I have worked with but the worst platform due to it's lack of 'nice things' that we just expect from languages/ecosystems these days. Where 'nice things' is defined as being open-source, having open-source ecosystem of developer tools etc. This isn't so much the beginning (as good stuff has been happening for a couple of ye…

This is my impression too. I'm not terribly familiar with C#, and used to avoid anything from Microsoft like the plague, but a lot of stuff I hear about C# sounds like it's a bit ahead of Java. (Really, Java should be more like Groovy, if you ask me.) But the JVM platform is great, and I'm just not going to get locked into a MS ecosystem. But if MS opens up to the rest of the world, well, that changes things consider…

> Java should be more like Groovy

It has been since lambdas were introduced in Java 8. Groovy's original design by its creator James Strachan was about adding closures to the dynamic typing that Beanshell had at the time. The stuff added to Groovy since then (e.g. the MOP for Grails, DSL syntax, static typing in 2.0) are things Java already does better or things (if you ask me) it shouldn't do.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#808

Post by 72deluxe »

com2kid wrote: post #403
jbooth wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's from the standard collections library, the most-used code in any language. It is in fact representative of the vast majority of code you use. The fact that it wasn't immediately clear to you that a lot of your code DOES use this code is probably the strongest argument I could make.

Now I love C#, but in defense of the above poster, standard library code is often pretty gnarly stuff. C++ is the poster child for this. No one argues that C++ is a bad language just because the standard library is full of magic.

I find the STL great! Sure, some compiler template messages can be tricky to understand but STL doesn't detract from C++ - you don't have to use the STL (but you're probably losing out if you don't use it and roll all those containers and algorithms yourself)

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#809

Post by tiedemann »

mercurial wrote: post #601
tolmasky wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much like countries, it doesn't necessarily make sense to treat companies like people when it comes to reputation. You shouldn't hold a grudge against a country forever, many of the people inside of it may have disagreed with its actions and more importantly the leadership could be completely different now. Similalrly, if most of the employees at Microsoft today are different than in the 90s and the leadership is com…

> Much like countries, it doesn't necessarily make sense to treat companies like people when it comes to reputation. You shouldn't hold a grudge against a country forever, many of the people inside of it may have disagreed with its actions and more importantly the leadership could be completely different now. Sure, but it really depends on what and how much. Microsoft made their fortune by being ethically bankrupt an…

"Microsoft made their fortune by being ethically bankrupt and breaking the law". Much like most of todays rich countries including US, EU, Russia and China.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#810

Post by lmm »

yohanatan wrote: post #491
lmm wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the selling points on scala-lang.org still apply over C# - type inference, pattern matching, case classes (C# makes these less bad than Java, but the field/property distinction can still bite you), an inheritance model that supports the good parts of multiple inheritance without the problems, covariance/contravariance, for/yield syntax that's generic and user-controlled, higher-kinded types. It takes a while…

> F# has a number of these specific implementations but they're kind of "hard-coded" in the language rather than fully extensible. That's not true. You can extend the language yourself with "computation expressions" (and that's in fact how the 'async', 'let!' et al keywords are implemented).

True, but what you can't do is abstract over them; you can't write a function that operates on "some generic computation expression" (you can't even write that type). So you can't write "sequence" or "traverseM" or more complicated/specific things you build on top of these.
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