Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO • Hacker News Board

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#801

Post by ralfd » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 1:07 AM UTC

simon_ wrote: post #588

To summarize a sentiment I see underlying some of the "conservative" positions on HN on Eich: all of us who are pro gay marriage (me very much included[0]) might want to think pretty carefully about the political culture we want to create. Regardless of how exceptional and crystal-clear this moral issue is, if we accept personal attacks against political opponents, we are clearly "upping the ante" and creating a huge…

I agree with you. I recently read on reddit a report by someone who was fired by his conservative company because he had an Obama decal on his car and found that incredibly crazy and toxic. This is now from the other side.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#802

Post by smsm42 » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 1:13 AM UTC

dopamean wrote: post #773

smsm42 wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> it's reasonable for gay employees and business partners to be concerned. Unless Mozilla has entered into business of organizing gay weddings while I wasn't looking - no, it's not reasonable at all. No more than gun owner should be concerned if his CEO donated to a known anti-gun politician, or a medical marijuana user should be concerned if his business partner donated to a politician that opposes drug legalizati…

It is absolutely reasonable for gay employees to be concerned. As CEO of a company guides company policy about a lot of things that have nothing to do with writing code such as health benefits.

Which specifically policy of Mozilla has any relation to gay marriage in California?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#803

Post by gfodor » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 1:19 AM UTC

phaus wrote: post #724

gfodor wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support legalizing gay marriage. But two things, first, supporting prop 8 does not mean you "believe a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like others." It means you don't believe that the government should recognize same sex marriages as marriages. There are a large gradient of views here, and on one extreme are the bigots who hate homosexuals and on the other there are people who simply have…

>there are people who simply have hangups about the word "marriage" vs "civil unions." And this 'hangup' is simply idiotic. Christians that speak of 'civil unions' are trying to hold homosexuals' rights hostage so they can pretend that they have carved out a small victory. Christianity invented neither the concept nor the terminology for marriage. Most of us at HN rave all day long about how stupid it is when a compa…

I agree that it's idiotic. But if someone feels this way, they are just an idiot (in that respect.) Most people are idiots in one way or another. But that doesn't mean they are necessarily a bigot or think gay people are subhuman, as has been accused of Eich. And we all know that having stupid, idiotic opinions never prevented anyone from being a CEO.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#804

Post by xahrepap » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 1:23 AM UTC

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

I agree with what you said. I hate it when "Free Speech" is viewed as a one way street. For example:

> Mozilla believes both in equality and freedom of speech. Equality is necessary for meaningful speech. And you need free speech to fight for equality. Figuring out how to stand for both at the same time can be hard.

Ok, Mozilla believes in free speech? Not according to how they have behaved. So why was their last CEO canned (oh... he "stepped down"... whatever)? If they really believed in free speech they would've left his opinion his opinion, and judged his capacity as CEO based on his work.

None of what I have read or heard about all this actually offensive until I read that sentence in the report.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#805

Post by gfodor » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 1:28 AM UTC

ScottBurson wrote: post #761

gfodor wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are someone who believes gay people should be allowed to form civil unions, but are offended by the idea that those unions be called marriages, supporting prop 8 is consistent with those views even though it doesn't mention civil unions. I have no idea why Brendan donated $1,000 to support prop 8, and I'd be skeptical that he'd do so if he didn't actually have much stronger beliefs than the civil unions point.…

> If you are someone who believes gay people should be allowed to form civil unions, but are offended [emphasis added] by the idea that those unions be called marriages ... then you still see gay people as fundamentally different from and less than straight people. There's no way out of this. EDITED to add: Also, what's happening to Eich isn't happening just because he made that donation. As furious as I was about Pr…

> There's no way out of this.

Sure there is. Many people who oppose gay marriage not because of their feelings towards gay people but because they believe or were taught that the Bible says that God says that marriage is between a man and a woman, and regardless of their personal views they defer to the Bible as the word of god.

Is this a fucking stupid belief? I think so, yes. Is it the same belief as thinking that gay people are subhuman? No.

Seeing the difference is what makes it possible to get through to people who feel this way in order to persuade them their beliefs should be reconsidered. Calling them bigots and shutting them out as being intolerant and evil (and getting them fired from their jobs) is a sure fire way to ensure they become entrenched and feel it's an "us vs. them" environment.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#806

Post by ralfd » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 1:33 AM UTC

quaunaut wrote: post #719

facepalm wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has he ever said anything against gays? Being opposed to gay marriage is not the same as being opposed to gays.

Yes it is. Lets not make useless differences here, it is. To think there isn't is somehow thinking someone having fewer rights than you do is still legally equal to you.

What about people who think marriage is silly anyway?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#807

Post by realpolitik » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 1:40 AM UTC

InclinedPlane wrote: post #145

Oculus wrote: post #6

I'm not sure how I feel about this one. On the one hand, Brendan Eich had some beliefs that were against Mozilla's core values, but on the other hand we just showed that when a mob on the Internet wants something - they get it. It's scary because this mob has global reach, unlimited power, but isn't always right.

This isn't a new thing. It's not even a recent thing. Public opinion has always been a potent force. For an organization like Mozilla I don't think it's at all surprising that public opinion has a big role in shaping who is at the helm. It's also not overly scary to me that issues of equality related to sexual orientation are now prominent enough to be a major factor in issues like the leadership of the Mozilla Organ…

Monetary policy or minimum wages are issues of "small import"? They don't relate to equitable treatment of millions of human beings? I guess we can just lower taxes and increase the wealth gap however we see fit, as long as we have gay marriage.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#808

Post by gred » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 1:41 AM UTC

This is astounding to me. In an industry which claims to be a meritocracy, at a nonprofit pledged to promoting openness, a legend is no longer allowed to contribute because he dares to agree with the majority of his fellow Californians on a political issue, on his own time, with his own money. For shame.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#809

Post by AnotherDesigner » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 1:43 AM UTC

What we've learned today:

Most commenters on Hacker News don't know what freedom of speech is. They also don't understand, or maybe don't care, about the responsibility of society to protect minority groups. They also haven't read the bible or understand any of the history behind religion-based attacks on gay rights. I had no idea we had so many Fox News viewers here.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#810

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Apr 04, 2014, 1:46 AM UTC

gred wrote: post #808

This is astounding to me. In an industry which claims to be a meritocracy, at a nonprofit pledged to promoting openness, a legend is no longer allowed to contribute because he dares to agree with the majority of his fellow Californians on a political issue, on his own time, with his own money. For shame.

> a legend is no longer allowed to contribute

Er, since when is Eich not "allowed to contribute"?

> because he dares to agree with the majority of his fellow Californians on a political issue, on his own time, with his own money.

Either he voluntarily stepped down (in which case, the reason stated is clearly wrong) or he was forced to stepped down by the Mozilla Corporation board and/or the Mozilla Foundation (which owns Mozilla Corp), in which case its a lot more likely that the reason is that they lost confidence in his ability to lead because of the way he responded to the controversy, rather than that they were upset by his political stand. In any case, there is very little basis for the characterization you present.