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Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

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Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#801

Post by eqvinox »

mike_hearn wrote: post #784
throwaway2037 wrote: post #780

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Brexit had no impact on the British economy. From here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_effects_of_Brexit > The majority of economists believe that Brexit has harmed the UK's economy and reduced its real per capita income in the long term, and the referendum itself damaged the economy.

That specific statement has five citations and all of them are from 2016 or 2017, when Brexit hadn't happened and so they were merely speculating about possible future effects. So none of the citations supports the claim. The citations also contradict the statement, "the referendum itself damaged the economy". Instead they admit the referendum's effects were better than predicted by which they mean there weren't any:…

> mistake of citing discredited analyses and making false claims based on them.

So, what should it cite?

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#802

Post by joxdosba »

mrtksn wrote: post #799
s1artibartfast wrote: post #777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the EU be so irrationally butt hurt about it? It seems easy enough to let the Swiss have their policy and both continue to benefit Edit: EU can void all the other contracts, but why would it want to? Why do they care so much about how many immigrants Switzerland has?

Swiss can have their policy, who said they can't have it? It's just that they can't make EU have the Swiss policy. If Switzerland wants to be a 3rd party country, they can do that and negotiate visa regime, import/export controls etc with EU like everyone else who is not part of EU or don't have a deal. They can be like UK or Turkey for example, or be have entirely different relationship.

Swiss can never be like the UK or Turkey if it reneges on the deal it has now. The other two have leverage, Swiss do not.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#803

Post by xinayder »

lqet wrote: post #647
kuerbel wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also swiss here. So many people seem to think that this is about refugees. Wrong. It's about Europeans. Mostly Germans. They are educated and highly skilled and for some swiss, that's a problem. They blame them for not finding a job or an appartement. Just read the comments on inside paradeplatz, you can translate with any llm, on a post about the referendum. A subset of the swiss Middle class has decided that they d…

I am German and live near the Swiss border. My wife is Swiss. I always tell Germans: if you want to get a feeling for the life of an immigrant in Germany, go to a non-touristic region in Switzerland. It's definitely not open hostility, but many little things which quickly give you the impression that you are not welcome and seen as a threat. You are treated differently as soon as you are identified as a foreigner, an…

> It's definitely not open hostility, but many little things which quickly give you the impression that you are not welcome and seen as a threat.

Literally what most expats go through in Europe. I live abroad for 6 years and here, a Central EU country, this also happens. I am trying to learn the language and even then I got told implicitly several times that I will still be treated as a foreigner, no matter how much culture and language I learn from the local country.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#804

Post by mrtksn »

joxdosba wrote: post #802
mrtksn wrote: post #799

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss can have their policy, who said they can't have it? It's just that they can't make EU have the Swiss policy. If Switzerland wants to be a 3rd party country, they can do that and negotiate visa regime, import/export controls etc with EU like everyone else who is not part of EU or don't have a deal. They can be like UK or Turkey for example, or be have entirely different relationship.

Swiss can never be like the UK or Turkey if it reneges on the deal it has now. The other two have leverage, Swiss do not.

It’s up to the Swiss to decide regardless, if population limit is more important than being integrated into Europe they can do that. What they can’t do is to have equal access to the single market like the other EU countries without the obligation that other countries have.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#805

Post by joxdosba »

mrtksn wrote: post #804
joxdosba wrote: post #802

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss can never be like the UK or Turkey if it reneges on the deal it has now. The other two have leverage, Swiss do not.

It’s up to the Swiss to decide regardless, if population limit is more important than being integrated into Europe they can do that. What they can’t do is to have equal access to the single market like the other EU countries without the obligation that other countries have.

It’s up to the Swiss to decide as much as it was up to the Melians.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#806

Post by khriss »

rayiner wrote: post #724
khriss wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you show me where the “mediocre white men” are on this chart? I think you will find that they tend to be at home, according to this graph https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/2023-demograp... . From the report 'Specifically, Black males received sentences 13.4 percent longer, and Hispanic males received sentences 11.2 percent longer, than White males' So, based on your own logic, you would argue for h…

> So, based on your own logic, you would argue for higher prison sentences for whites? Yes. Your report shows that white men are more often given probation, which explains much of the difference. That should stop. Throw those fuckers in prison. Your report also shows that black women received 6% shorter sentences than white women. So there seems to be more at work here than black versus white. We need less discretion…

> That should stop. Throw those fuckers in prison.

And yet, if I look at your comment history, you seem hyper focused on discrimination in admissions. I don't see a single instance where you even attempted to advocate for broader elimination of discrimination. It has always been a few narrow instances where whites were on the receiving end.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#807

Post by joe_mamba »

j_maffe wrote: post #417
joe_mamba wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the European economy was not as integrated And somehow despite this, the European economies had the biggest share of global GDP back then. And now they're more integrated than ever, have more immigration than ever, have created the EU as their "big daddy" leader and enforcer, and yet they can't stop losing share of GDP to the rest of the world. Stange. Maybe they should hit the brakes for a second and reflect that…

> Maybe the solution is not more EU, but less EU. You haven't given a single reason why that would be beneficial.

Because I'd rather have a change, any change, is better than the current managed decline lead by the EU overseer.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#808

Post by logancbrown »

foldr wrote: post #385
logancbrown wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss people are perfectly capable of becoming health workers? What kind of argument is this?

That's an option, but it takes a long time to train and recruit locally, costs a lot of money, and you'll probably have to increase salaries to get the required numbers. If there were an easy and cheap way to recruit all the required staff locally, that would already be happening.

So the solution is to import uneducated and non-certified individuals from other countries at lower pay and hope you can pay them less and teach them? As if that is any easier? Sounds like the only reason is so health conglomerates can provide lower pay.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#809

Post by mike_hearn »

eqvinox wrote: post #801
mike_hearn wrote: post #784

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That specific statement has five citations and all of them are from 2016 or 2017, when Brexit hadn't happened and so they were merely speculating about possible future effects. So none of the citations supports the claim. The citations also contradict the statement, "the referendum itself damaged the economy". Instead they admit the referendum's effects were better than predicted by which they mean there weren't any:…

> mistake of citing discredited analyses and making false claims based on them. So, what should it cite?

Economic data.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#810

Post by logancbrown »

amunozo wrote: post #596
logancbrown wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss people are perfectly capable of becoming health workers? What kind of argument is this?

Fertility rates are low and people are ageing, like everywhere in Europe. There will be a moment that simply there won't be enough workers. The reality is that there is already a lack of healthcare professional even without a population cap that would only get worse given the case.

Sounds like modern slavery, import people from poorer countries to tend to the rich and elderly in countries that made short-term sacrifices to not build a future for themselves independently.
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