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Your phone is about to stop being yours

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Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#801

Post by globular-toast »

coldtea wrote: post #644
globular-toast wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they can do computing, but it's awkward and most people don't use them for that, it's true. The question of ownership is interesting. If I buy a chair, it doesn't make a very good table, does that mean I don't own it? Most people don't know what general purpose computing is. To them a cloud terminal is a computer. So, to them, they do own their devices because that's all they are. I feel like some of us think w…

> The question of ownership is interesting. If I buy a chair, it doesn't make a very good table, does that mean I don't own it? A better comparison is buying a chair where the seller gets to aprove who sits and when.

Not really. My point is people don't even think they're buying a general purpose computer because they don't know what that is. They are buying a cloud terminal and it works as a cloud terminal. You might think of your smartphone as a computer, but you're wrong. So it's a chair and anyone can sit on it, it's just not a table. It never was.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#802

Post by fsflover »

kuhsaft wrote: post #785
fsflover wrote: post #777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kill switches will work independently on a compromise. Why are they moot? Also, it's possible to completely reflash the device in case of doubt. "quite easily" strongly depends on what exactly you are doing. For example, if I use Firefox with NoScript, then it is not very easy.

> The kill switches will work independently on a compromise. Why are they moot? Kill switches only work as a security feature when you activate them before you know you're compromised. But that's impossible. It's a reactive "security" feature not a proactive one. > For example, if I use Firefox with NoScript, then it is not very easy. Security vulnerabilities aren't only JS related. https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/secu…

Good links, thank you. I agree that my protection is not perfect in general. Fortunately I do not open random websites on my phone; I have my laptop with Qubes OS for that.

> Adding an extension that can access all your browsing data doesn't seem very secure either.

This is not just a random extension but an officially recommended one, https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/recommended-extensions-.... It's also regularly verified by the community. I trust it as I trust Firefox.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#803

Post by dpark »

modo_mario wrote: post #675
brookst wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK, not really a fan of redefining computer to make a rhetorical point. It seems counter-productive to tell people the computing device they think as a computer isn’t really a computer. It’s like saying my car isn’t really a car because I can’t adjust spark timing. Someone could make that semantic argument but it’s hard to imagine anyone would care.

>It’s like saying my car isn’t really a car because I can’t adjust spark timing. What if it only drives along select predetermined monetised routes?

That’s still a car.

You could own a race car that cannot legally be driven on any public roads and it’s still a car.

I agree with brookst that this sort of redefinition is a poor rhetorical tool.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#804

Post by microtonal »

theK wrote: post #207
Cider9986 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GrapheneOS is the answer. Apple's software is really buggy compared to Android and Linux.

Or /e/

/e/OS is not (y)our friend. The CEO of Murena says that security hardening is only pedophiles and spies:

https://mastodon.social/@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social/116353...

https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-intervie...

They spread the same narrative as the governments/organizations that push Chat Control, age verification, etc.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#805

Post by kuhsaft »

fsflover wrote: post #802
kuhsaft wrote: post #785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The kill switches will work independently on a compromise. Why are they moot? Kill switches only work as a security feature when you activate them before you know you're compromised. But that's impossible. It's a reactive "security" feature not a proactive one. > For example, if I use Firefox with NoScript, then it is not very easy. Security vulnerabilities aren't only JS related. https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/secu…

Good links, thank you. I agree that my protection is not perfect in general. Fortunately I do not open random websites on my phone; I have my laptop with Qubes OS for that. > Adding an extension that can access all your browsing data doesn't seem very secure either. This is not just a random extension but an officially recommended one, https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/recommended-extensions-... . It's also regula…

> Fortunately I do not open random websites on my phone

That's the main use for almost everyone. You're suggesting people use a less secure device and are stating that it's more secure if they don't use it in the way it's mostly used?

That doesn't sound like freedom. That sounds like living in paranoia. You bring up FUD in so many comments, but you seem to be living it. Ironically though, you choose to use systems that enable FUD when there are systems that let you not worry.

There are people building secure software and hardware, so people don't have to live in fear when using their devices. That's the freedom that many people care about.

There's the freedom to shoot yourself in the foot. Most people don't care about that.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#806

Post by microtonal »

xigoi wrote: post #537
Cider9986 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GrapheneOS is significantly more secure, more private, and more free. Not sure why you would use /e/.

Because in order to use Graphene, you have to financially support the same company that is making Android less free.

At the end of the cycle of a Pixel model, they are heavily discounted. So much that it's probably close to hardware + development cost. Google probably expects to make a profit from Google One subscriptions, Play purchases, and ads.

By installing GrapheneOS, you are giving them nothing.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#807

Post by microtonal »

theK wrote: post #372
Cider9986 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GrapheneOS is significantly more secure, more private, and more free. Not sure why you would use /e/.

Well, for one you can actually buy an /e/ device right now. Also, once you have it, it just works. Some people like that.

You get a device that still runs proprietary Google blobs in privileged processes (for Play Integrity), talks a lot with Google, gives certain Google applications (like Google Maps) higher privileges than normal Android apps (you can find the signing keys of apps that get elevated privileges in the source code of the /e/OS microG fork), uploads your speech to OpenAI for speech to text, uses a shady middleman (which they do not want to reveal the owner of) for installing F-Droid apps [1], and is hopelessly behind on Linux kernel versions, firmware blobs, and Android security patches (remember that Android Security Bulletins only have backports of high/critical patches).

I wouldn't recommend anyone to use /e/OS. Either they are very incompetent or they are very shady.

[1] https://info.cleanapk.org

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#808

Post by microtonal »

vfclists wrote: post #218
Cider9986 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should switch to GrapheneOS instead.

You mean buy a Google Pixel? How many people can afford one?

A Pixel 9a is ~350 Euro here in Europe and it still has better device security (separate secure enclave, MTE, etc.) than pretty much any other phone besides iPhone and other Pixels. Pretty great cameras for the price too. Still supported until 2032 (so presumably also on GrapheneOS).

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#809

Post by kube-system »

b345 wrote: post #581
kube-system wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mentioned surveillance -- I presumed you were talking about the ID requirement. This only applies if you're using Google's computers to push out your app. If you sideload... what "surveillance" are you talking about? > They've now decided you can't sideload until tomorrow A single 24 hour waiting period, only the first time. Or just use ADB. The point is to prevent false-urgency scams. Honestly even this seems to…

If they're not surveilling what apps are being sideloaded, why is the bypass managed by google play services? There are at least 2 better options: - An option to not install the update which would fuck with my device - An option to use the OS layer instead of google play services for this fuckery. i disable gplay services the moment I get my hands on a new phone.

Because they're syncing the override flag to your next device so you don't have to do the waiting window ever again after the first time

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#810

Post by echelon »

palata wrote: post #770
echelon wrote: post #763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Respectfully, I think this is the wrong fight. Respectfully, no. There are no mainstream OS alternatives. You're standing up to fight for 0.000001% of users and leaving everyone else stuck. Fighting to win our phones back is fighting for the 99.99999%. These devices are the most important part of everyone's digital world. Certainly the non-technical folks. You can't even order food at restaurants anymore without th…

I feel like you missed my point. I am fighting for the 100% (and you are not, as you say). We should all own our devices, and owning a device means that we can install whatever OS we want on it. The beauty of it being that if you can install whatever OS you want on it, then the problem raised by the article does not exist anymore. Today, if you own a Pixel, you can just install GrapheneOS and it will mostly work. Why…

> When we buy an Android device, we should be able to install an alternative OS

That's not freedom for the world.

That's freedom for you and ten people.

The bigger thing to fight for is removing Apple and Android's power over what happens post-sale. And that can include your demand, but it also includes a whole hell of a lot more about vanilla/stock Android/iOS.

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