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If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

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Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#801

Post by cman1444 »

greenavocado wrote: post #783
HDBaseT wrote: post #765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home "ownership" is misleading. You don't own a home until you've paid it off. Younger people are getting into more debt, for much longer in order to be able to survive. When we start comparing the numbers (i.e, house paid off, even reflected as a percentage paid off, relative to age) the numbers reveal the real crisis. Anecdotally, I know tons of 20-30 year olds getting into the property market (with insane levels o…

To be pedantic what most people consider ownership is a revocable land lease from the state government which you forfeit if you fail to pay protection money to the gov. True ownership is non-existent.

There are plenty of entities that don't pay property taxes. Charities, religious facilities, some disabled people, spouses of fallen service members.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#802

Post by lovich »

trhway wrote: post #657
tempaccount5050 wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand, yes. My 24 year old coworker makes $65k/year and has a $2200/mo mortgage. It's an old starter home in the Midwest, nothing fancy. It stresses him out to the point of not going to a happy hour once in a while unless there's a buy one get one deal or something or I offer to buy (which I do happily). No vacations, no eating out, no fun. It's super sad to see. He talks about being in his prime but…

fast-forward 15-20 years. He has most probably paid out his mortgage (salary growth/inflation, etc. so most people i know paid their mortgages in about 15 years, and some by that time got second or even 3rd property - the observations are over the last 30 years here, included are only salaried employees and excluded are the ones who made "exits" which is completely different game level). Even if he is still paying hi…

thats a cool assumption.

Our industries are routinely telling people who just spent 4-6 years in training that tough shit, you picked the wrong career.

You are looking at this with a lens of stability that no longer exists, which I personally believe is a major component about why everyone is so unhappy.

You cant just reach a level of life that you are comfortable with and stay there anymore. Its a constant cycle of learning new skills that are then useless then learning more skills that are then useless, ad on infinitum.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#803

Post by diogenescynic »

seanthemon wrote: post #592
decimalenough wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YMMV, but the fully remote workers I know (I manage a few and am married to one) seem very happy about it, largely because they get to spend a lot more time with their families than they otherwise would. They're anxious mostly because they're afraid they'll have to forcibly RTO.

I and my wife have been fully remote for over a decade, absolutely love it and I can't understand the whole going to office thing or people pushing for it.

It's for the people having affairs at work and who hate their families.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#804

Post by cperciva »

spixy wrote: post #559
cperciva wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and a lot of major necessities haven't . CPI is an average -- of course some things will be higher.

Necessary stuff (houses, healthcare, education) have outpaced CPI, and generally it is becoming more expensive. Unnecessary stuff (electronics, appliances, other tech) did not, and generally it is becoming cheaper (Planned obsolescence is another topic though...)

Do you consider food and clothing to be "unnecessary stuff"?

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#805

Post by hunterpayne »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #65
some_random wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just objectively untrue. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-in...

I see Norway on that list (no surprise). What is so sad is how much better it could be in the U.S.… but for some odd notion that Billionaires and Corporations are thought to owe so little and the people of this country thought to deserve so little.

Norway has a population of less than 6m with a huge oil reserve. That's not a good proxy for the US in any way.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#806

Post by danielschonfeld »

bontaq wrote: post #409

My mom said, "whatever we built isn't working anymore," and I think that captures most of the sentiment. It's also funny to see the "the economy is roaring!" "incomes are up!". Great, have they increased by as much as inflation? Can I afford a home? Work has if anything gotten worse in general. Remote's gone. Pay's less. ADHD maximum AI use required. Nobody can take a break. Pressure's on. 1.5 trillion more to the mi…

I agree with your mom’s sentiment. It’s exactly that. I also feel that generally hope is gone - nobody actually sits there imagining the US becoming what it felt like in the 90s and that’s probably the root of the problem. We all kinda internalize this is the decline.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#807

Post by WarmWash »

Aurornis wrote: post #601
davesque wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why did houses used to be affordable even in those dense regions with high paying jobs? People act as though housing has always been prohibitively expensive in city centers but it hasn't. My dad bought a house in Boulder, CO of all places easily in the 90s. And of course he made a killing off of it because the housing market went completely insane over the next two decades. I now make more money than he ever did…

> Then why did houses used to be affordable even in those dense regions with high paying jobs? Because those city centers have remained the same size while demand for living there continues to increase More demand for a fixed set of land drives prices up. Those city centers today are not equivalent to the same city centers 35 year ago.

Just to take it one step further, there are usually geographical reasons why cities are located where they are.

So you also can't just build a new city in central Nebraska and have everyone move there for cheap.

This is besides the entrenchment that happens when industry is in one place for a long time.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#808

Post by rambojohnson »

Aurornis wrote: post #618
bontaq wrote: post #409

My mom said, "whatever we built isn't working anymore," and I think that captures most of the sentiment. It's also funny to see the "the economy is roaring!" "incomes are up!". Great, have they increased by as much as inflation? Can I afford a home? Work has if anything gotten worse in general. Remote's gone. Pay's less. ADHD maximum AI use required. Nobody can take a break. Pressure's on. 1.5 trillion more to the mi…

> It's also funny to see the "the economy is roaring!" "incomes are up!". Great, have they increased by as much as inflation? Can I afford a home? Gen Z home ownership is outpacing millenial home ownership at the same age. There's a lot of denial around this topic because everywhere you turn there's a Reddit post or news headline about how housing is impossible to afford. > Pay's less. Less than the narrow window of…

[dead]

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#809

Post by diogenescynic »

HDBaseT wrote: post #772
tzs wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In constant dollars cars are actually pretty much the same as they were 40+ years ago when you compare similar types and trim levels. A new Honda Civic for example costs about the same when you take into account inflation as the Civic I bought in 1989. The average price people are paying for a new car now is (in constant dollars) about twice what it was back when I got that '89 Civic, but that is because a larger per…

A 1999 Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla, assuming serviced regularly (and competently) could easily be on the road today. I genuinely do not believe a 2025 car will usable on the road in 2035 (a mere 9 years), yet known 15 or 20 years from now. They are all too hamstrung by technology and whilst some of the technology is an improvement, a vast majority if malicious.

The reason Toyota prices are still so high is because they're one of the only vehicles that are still so reliable (Mazda and Honda are actually great too). I think a 2025 Lexus GX 550 will almost certainly be on the road in 2035. Anything electric I am less certain of because they depreciate way faster and the build quality sucks.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#810

Post by WarmWash »

maxerickson wrote: post #658
mikepurvis wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same experience as a Canadian visiting NY and SF in recent years. Yes I know I went to the most expensive cities in the country but still it was hard to eat a basic meal that wasn't US$30, and in tourist contexts (like the hotel restaurant) it was even more still. Even shopping for a few basic groceries felt like I was paying dollar amounts more than I would expect to see at home but in a currency that's worth 1.3x+.

Services are expensive because they compete for labor with other things. I think US grocery prices are higher because there's not really a goal of keeping them lower. Subsidies could be structured to ensure that they help the consumer, but they aren't. And so on.

Grocery stores don't make any money though. That's why its practically a huge monopoly, and even still they hardly make money. Food in general is an awful business to be in.

Food is expensive and no one is getting rich from it. It's a strong sign you are in an advanced economy, and will be having it hard if you aren't part of that "advanced".

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