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Oracle slashes 30k jobs

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Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#801

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What's about DB2? I have no experience with it but I guess IBM specifically designed it for enterprise-scale transaction processing workloads...

DB2 was crazy good for certain use cases but very weird. For one, the pattern for DB2 efficiency was pretty much the exact opposite of every other database. Every other database would say "Normalize your tables, use BCNF, blah blah, small reference tables, special indices etc". DB2, the pattern was "denormalize everything into one gigantic wide table". If you did that it was insanely fast for the time and could handl…

Still around, and present form for many big corps.

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#802

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short answer: today I think there is genuinely nothing that anyone should use oracle for, but their database used to be seriously far ahead of the competition. A very long time ago (circa 2000) there were basically 2 databases that worked for use cases where you needed high availability and vertical scalability and those were Oracle and Sybase and Oracle was really the only game in town if you actually wanted certain…

Just curious, how was SQL Server perceived at the time compared to Sybase and Oracle? I know it originated as a port of Sybase.

Open arms, especially given its graphical tooling.

Starting with version 7.5 it was quite alright, however being Microsoft, it has been mostly used in Microsoft shops, alongside VB, MFC two tier applications, ASP, .NET, Sharepoint, Dynamics,...

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, how was SQL Server perceived at the time compared to Sybase and Oracle? I know it originated as a port of Sybase.

SQL Server was Sybase until (I think) version 4.9, just rebranded as Microsoft SQL Server. Then the two versions split and I don't think that any of the Sybase source code remains in what is SQL Server today. That said, a lot of the concepts (like a significant number of system stored procedures) and also TSQL remain almost the same, with small differences (except for system functions, which SQL Server has a lot more…

I wrote a connector for Sybase back in 2000, based on our existing one for MS SQL Server 7, and some things had already changed on the protocol level.

I don't remember exactly what and why, just that for some specific DML commands another kind of connection was required.

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#804

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Oracle and Java are deeply embedded in US gov work. How deep? Let's just say a large number of classified developer jobs hire for Java. Ellison has been a huge proponent of a surveillance state, and that likely ingratiates him with certain three letter agencies. The only developers I know who write Java full time work in systems that take pictures of things from far away.

Interesting, the _majority_ of developers I know write in JVM languages - mostly Kotlin for new stuff at this point. Typically I see folks using the Amazon Corretto java distribution.

So you actually know a lot of Android developers.

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#805

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java is not uncommon. Off the top of my head, a certain rainforest company and a lot of banks and EMR providers use it.

Amazon, among others, write a lot of java, but they want absolutely nothing to do with oracle licenses for java

They surely like the work Oracle employees provide to OpenJDK.

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#806
post #338

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I worked for a drug discovery company doing Java [1] since we were using Kafka Streams very liberally, but everything was done with the OpenJDK Temurin distribution. It was drilled into our heads on the first day do not install anything from Oracle . I think they were afraid of some weird lawsuit unless they bought an expensive license. I totally get it, but it made me a bit sad because they were even weary of someth…

I'm sure GraalVM is nice enough technology but I don't understand why anyone would actively choose to use a JVM from Oracle if they can avoid it.

OpenJDK is from Oracle as well.

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#807

Problem part A. Working for a greedy, reckless corporation without belonging to a union and investing way too much time, effort, and emotional energy in a parasocial, dishonest, unfair, and fragile arrangement. Problem part B. Not working for a sustainable, worked-owned co-op that prioritizes authenticity, fairness, stability, worker happiness, and customer satisfaction. Such environments have extremely low turnover.…

There are a few to scale, like Emilia Romana (Italy, 8000 employees) or Mondragon in Spain (79K employees), unfortunately not in tech. I only know of DATEV with some 8000 employees in that sector.

The co-op model in general is so very promising and those that still exist are really successful and from video documentations I watched, the employees seem to be content, if not getting rich. The problem is that this model runs counter to the very core of capitalism and as such faces a lot of criticism.

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#808

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oracle and Java are deeply embedded in US gov work. How deep? Let's just say a large number of classified developer jobs hire for Java. Ellison has been a huge proponent of a surveillance state, and that likely ingratiates him with certain three letter agencies. The only developers I know who write Java full time work in systems that take pictures of things from far away.

The question then becomes, does Java warrant the valuation Oracle has when the language itself is mostly FLOSS?

Who do you think pays most of the salaries of people working on OpenJDK?

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#809
post #786

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Java is used a lot , but not Oracle's version. One of the best things Sun ever did was open sourcing Java.

They’re all Oracle’s version. OpenJdk is Oracle’s implementation of the JLS. They’re just not using Oracle’s build of OpenJdk.

Almost all.

Embedded folks with real time offerings like PTC, Aicas, microEJ,.... have their own implementations, with real time support, bare metal deployments.

Folks like IBM and Azul nowadays take parts of OpenJDK, mostly standard library, and add their own runtimes instead.

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#810
post #130

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Actually, it is. You have been blinded by capitalism to consider it ethical. The tribes usually treat the members as a family. While kicking someone from a tribe can happen, it's considered to be a harsh punishment. In a tribe, when hard times come, people usually redistribute. That's a normal, human way of dealing with that situation. Not a layoff. The other aspect is the economic crises. When a central bank decides…

My employer is not my “tribe”. That is crazy. We have a contract saying I do X units of work and they pay me Y in return. Either of us end it at any time. At least this is in the case in the US. What you are saying might be true in other cultures.

No, that's another sort of misconception, also expressed in another comment by WalterBright, which conveniently ignores the reality of most jobs.

It glosses over the fact that employers exercise control over the social relations required for production (of anything larger that can be built by a self-employed person). This happens by virtue of owning all the crucial means of production involved. And that point, where you need to coordinate work of several people, it ceases to be a system of contractors who freely determine their working conditions, and becomes a collective that has a common goal.

So no, it's not case in the U.S., in no economy of the world is majority of production organized into everyone being a little independent contractor who brings (or rents) their own equipment. That would be horribly inefficient (not to mention that people don't want it either, by and large).

There is a clear rebut to this, how can employer own the social relations (required for production), like managerial relationships, when they ostensibly only own the factory equipment? Well, it's like when you own an appartment, you technically only own the four walls, but practically you also enjoy the privacy that comes with it. In a similar way, capitalists owning a factory don't just rent equipment to a bunch workers, but can dictate the whole social superstructure of production, including the redistribution of earnings.

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