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Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#801

Post by dwaite »

londons_explore wrote: post #516
rubyfan wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think anyone suggests Apple should get nothing for their app store services, just that it shouldn’t be 30% of every transaction processed through every iOS app.

The EU has the right approach. Don't try to legislate exactly what is a fair/unfair amount of profit to make - change the rules of the game by requiring third party marketplaces and payment platforms so apple has to lower rates or lose every app into a third party store. Apple can easily say "Use our store exclusively and you get our security/privacy guarantees. Go outside our store and you're in the wild west". App…

Several years in, I don't believe Apple has lowered rates at all.

If the EU has the right approach, then they still do not have the right implementation.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#802

Post by anigbrowl »

browningstreet wrote: post #630
TheDong wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably you also would agree that it's fair if Chrome, Windows, and Lenovo all charged me 30% each for using Patreon via Chrome+Windows on a thinkpad, right? They're doing about as much to facilitate my use of Patreon as Apple is. This isn't like a mall at all. This is like a web browser, where apps are webpages, and Apple is insisting that the contents of that webpage are something they can dictate all payment te…

Chrome, Windows and Lenovo don't have the payment system baked in, with all the consumer protections that come with it. I'm not entirely pro-Apple percentage in this argument, but I think people often dismiss the magical thing that Apple created with the app store and their payment/subscription system. The rest of the world keeps ripping users off, and Apple's walled garden is as protected a thing as it gets. I've go…

I had a Patreon subscription I forgot about. I went to Patreon and ended it. It took about a minute, including filling out the feedback form about why I was quitting.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#803

Post by dwaite »

rubyfan wrote: post #669
idiotsecant wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is in fact exactly what GP is suggesting.

I don’t read it that way. I think the point is it doesn’t make sense that apple is taking a cut of a transaction that is not in their payment rails*. Apple can still be compensated for their App store service without using a model that takes 30% of all transactions, e.g. a listing fee, an app review fee, etc. *And anything on their payment rails should have a normal transaction fee, e.g. Stripe’s retail rate is 2.9%…

This is the model they have moved to in the EU - an annual per user-app core technology fee for apps enabled to be listed outside the store, and relaxed in-store rules (and reduced commissions) if you choose to still list in Apple's App Store. Effectively, they are acting as if commissions are paying the core technology fee, and subsidizing it for apps which aren't profitable.

The per-user model means that apps which have adopted freemium and advertising-driven models wind up having quite different financials, and could be more expensive.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#804

Post by rdedev »

NewUser76312 wrote: post #785

I don't understand, doesn't the market solve these issues? Here's what I figure would happen: 1. App creators will pass the extra cost over to the iPhone users. 2. Android (and other platforms that can host smartphone apps) will be more competitive and start to look better for both app creators and consumers. Sure, there's a bit of a context switching cost. Not everyone will just be able to automatically change over…

There is a lot of stickiness associated with apple products. Be it their walled gardens or having better hardware or brand recognition. This is especially true in the American market

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#805

Post by dwaite »

gumby271 wrote: post #558
SwtCyber wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What really makes it uncomfortable is that Apple isn't just a neutral marketplace. They control the OS, the distribution channel, and the payment rails, so creators and platforms like Patreon can't realistically opt out

Don't forget they also directly compete with Patreon with podcast subscriptions. You can support a podcast through Apple podcasts or Patreon, but only one of those has a 30% chunk taken out.

IIRC Premium Apple podcasts charge their standard subscription fees (eg 30% the first year, 15% the years after that)

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#806

Post by dwaite »

ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #788
ericmay wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be a strong argument depending on the negative effects - I don't think it's very clear cut. Also no, neither Apple nor Google have a duopoly on the distribution of all consumer software. Microsoft exists, for example. The other problem consideration here is negotiating power. Today consumers don't have negotiating power over individual developers, but both Apple and Google do. If you complain to Meta about t…

I run GrapheneOS, but I can't use the national digital identity app because it requires Google Play Integrity. I very much cannot do what I want without it having severe consequences because the duopoly is starting to shape the basic digital infrastructure, and critical services start requiring that I use one of the two ecosystems. I think the principle of digital autonomy should be front and center. Surely we can fi…

Working adjacent to such digital identity app development, they are unfortunately regulated to require such device integrity approaches.

If Google Play Integrity didn't exist, the app would only be certified to run on e.g. unrooted Samsung Knox devices.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#807

Post by jacquesm »

siavosh wrote: post #771
jacquesm wrote: post #423

The wealthiest company in the world really needs that last little bit from those Patreon creators who have it way too easy in their lives. It's not as if the people that take that meager bit of cash are going to invest it in Apple stock so they're going to have to pay up. The Mafia can learn a thing or two from Cook.

This is the machine. The behavior is much larger than any CEO or even trillion dollar company.

The CEO could easily stop this.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#808

Post by eloisant »

Manuel_D wrote: post #755
jama211 wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said. Glad to see this at the top. Google also takes 30%. And I think steam too. This is 100% a regulatory issue.

But competitors to Steam exist: Epic Games Store only takes a 12% cut. Publishers have an option to use other distributors but choose not to.

> Publishers have an option to use other distributors but choose not to

They can choose to sell in the store where all users are, or in the store nobody goes.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#809

Post by eloisant »

matt-p wrote: post #682
nabla9 wrote: post #327

Apple’s App Store profits on commissions from digital sales Revenue $32 B Operating Costs $7 B [1] Estimated Profit $25 B Operating Margin ~78% [1] R&D, security, hosting, human review, and including building and maintaining developer tools Xcode, APIs, and SDKs. Apple could take just 7% cut and still make 20% profits. Fun Fact: During the Epic trial, it was revealed that Apple's profit margins on the App Store were…

Let's be honest if this was a European company it would be capped by law at 5-10%. Problem is who has an incentive to do the right thing here? Not apple and certainly not the US government (most of this revenue comes from outside the US).Nobody can defend it, yet nobody wishes to stop it.

The US government should absolutely do that, but they won't because they defends the interests of big companies rather than the interests of small companies or US citizens.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#810

Post by eloisant »

drnick1 wrote: post #706
danielvaughn wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think I might be done with Apple. The only thing keeping me using them is how much I hate Android. The _millisecond_ a competitor arrives, I'm dropping my iPhone like a bad habit.

GrapheneOS on a Pixel is that competitor. Open source, more secure than Apple, compatible with nearly all Android apps. It's all the positive aspects of Android without the downsides (Google).

> compatible with nearly all Android apps

The "nearly" is the issue. Opting out of the Apple/Google duopoly comes at a great cost.

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