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Amazon cuts 16k jobs

reuters.com

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Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#801

Post by milch »

Saline9515 wrote: post #632
milch wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigrants pay social security taxes, unemployment taxes, ... that they also will never be able to benefit from. Those are purely for the benefit of US citizens

It depends if the immigrant is hired because the native worker is deemed too expensive. In this case, it contributes to reducing contributions through wage suppression.

If you have access to data that shows big tech is preferentially hiring visa holders over US citizens you should get on that class action lawsuit right away. That's probably hundreds of thousands or even millions per person in lost wages, and even after lawyers take their 30% cut, that's still a sizable chunk.

Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#802

Post by LPisGood »

gedy wrote: post #792
LPisGood wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the thing here. Software engineering is an intelligence-complete problem. If AI can solve it, then it can solve any sort of knowledge work like accounting, financial analysis, etc

You are right, but I think at the moment, a lot of people are confusing "software engineering" with "set up my react boilerplate with tailwind and unit tests", and AI just is way better for that sort of rote thing. I've never felt comfortable with the devs who just want some Jira ticket with exactly what to do. That's basically what AI/LLMs can do pretty well.

Those people have always annoyed the hell out of me and I would prefer to not work with them.

Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#803

Post by milch »

mc32 wrote: post #459
milch wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigrants pay social security taxes, unemployment taxes, ... that they also will never be able to benefit from. Those are purely for the benefit of US citizens

There is a good case for vetted legal immigration (there is need and they fill that unmet need), no question; however, that should not be at the expense of the local population, regardless of country. In other words, the locals should not suffer a depressed job market because of immigration. The whole reason for a state to exist is to first and foremost look after the wellbeing of its citizens that elect the bodies o…

I'm not sure where you're getting that from in my comment. I never said US citizens should want H1Bs for everyone with zero vetting, only that they are a net tax positive.

It's not a dichotomy of maintaining the status quo or getting rid of H1b completely. At least in big tech companies, they do follow labor market tests and prevailing wage tests and so on that are designed to vet that there is an unmet need and that visa holders aren't underpaid. I won't deny there are visa mills and consultancies that game the system and pretty much explicitly just hire cheap foreign labor, but this is a thread about H1B in the context of Amazon layoffs, not InfoSys layoffs.

Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#804

Post by FilosofumRex »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #436
echelon wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't we all want H1B rather than offshoring? That keeps the facilities here, the local employment options here, the growth here, the tax base here... We should want more smart people moving to this country. More business creation, more capital, more labor, more output. Immigration is total economic growth for America, non zero-sum. Offshoring is not only economic loss, but second order loss: we lose the capacity…

I want the loopholes on H1Bs to be closed. H1B is a great concept to get foreign talent that found domestically. But these days is a shell game that's turned into a way to put shackles on employees who can't job hop. It hurts both groups in the long run.

> want the loopholes on H1Bs to be closed. H1B is a great concept...

There are no loopholes on H1B, it's working exactly as it was intended - replace, not just supplement - American workers with cheaper, more obedient tech slave workers dependent of their master-employer for their survival.

The talent visa is called O-1 not H1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=envbbUc4LhU

Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#805

Post by jannyfer »

volkk wrote: post #627
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a pretty clear indication of AI undeniably passing the turing test in case that was in debate still. No one can really tell if what's AI generated or not anymore. We're all going by vibes and undoubtedly getting it wrong.

i don't think that's what this means. it just means to me a certain population of people are clueless and don't use these tools enough. what's _actually_ damaging/obnoxious are the ones arguing that this guy is a good writer and that this isn't AI. IMO, telling the difference can be as simple as looking for the common giveaways, or as complex as reading between the lines of the structure of sentences, the terrible ad…

I agree with you and I definitely noticed the “it’s not just X, it’s Y” pattern.

But I find your comment funny because it ironically has the same “not that, this” pattern in a more verbose and less polished & less formulaic pattern.

Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#806

Post by snowwrestler »

rich_sasha wrote: post #317
nicoburns wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Global economy doesn't look that terrible. It doesn't? I was born in the 90s (so admittedly 2008 was before I started working), but the economy is looking the worst it's been in my lifetime to me.

US real GDP is racing ahead: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDPC1 . Inflation is fine, even if you don't fully believe the official numbers: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FPCPITOTLZGUSA . Unemployment is increasing but below long term mean: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE . Interest rates are at a reasonably business-friendly level. This is all the USofA. Elsewhere, China is allegedly also printing…

U.S. tariffs created inflationary pressure that has so far been mostly absorbed by producers and retailers, but they can’t do that forever. In fact the Amazon CEO said a week ago that they will have to raise prices this year due to tariffs.

Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#807

Post by acdha »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #772
loeg wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much less severe than 2001, where tech lost 250,000 jobs peak to trough (~18.5% from 2001 to 2003). Current downturn from peak (2022) is about 80,000 jobs (~3.2%). The timeframe for this period is longer and the magnitude is much lower. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES6054150001

Interesting. I guess I'm surprised, because having lived through both, this somehow feels worse.

In 2001, there were a ton of non-dotcom jobs where big companies, non-profits, governments, etc. wanted to move online for the real benefits it offered but had struggled to lure people away from bubble money. The people I knew who were laid off got jobs pretty quickly once they were looking outside of SF startups—not always the same money, but sometimes better and never much worse, and still building relevant career experience.

The market is mature now, and most sectors of the economy are getting hammered at the same time: tariffs have most industries cautious about new commitments if they aren’t already cutting, academia is reeling from grants being rescinded, large chunks of federal spending are gone or frozen, and state/local governments are getting less federal funding at the same time everything else is affecting tax revenue and increasing demand for social services. With so much uncertainty affecting the entire economy, you hear from people who have hundreds of interviews because even established companies in stable industries are unsure what tomorrow will look like after the next whim of an unstable octogenarian.

Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#808

Post by betty_staples »

pydry wrote: post #641
jasondigitized wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fake management is far more common than real management. Most of management is centered around hyper-realistic work like activities.

My experience with ex Amazon managers is that they brought a toxic culture and destroyed more value than they created. Some people are so focused on whether they could automate their work output with an LLM to ask themselves if they even should.

[dead]

Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#809

Post by p1esk »

mikeweiss wrote: post #731
coffeemug wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don’t understand why people oppose that rather than enthusiastically desire it. The end state you’re describing is the culmination of the enlightenment project. Automating labor is the point! Then you can paint, or play chess, or eat amazing food, or do whatever you want. Work isn’t the end, it’s the means. Products and services is the end. If we can achieve the end via technology, who cares about the work?

Yes work is the means, the means to earn an income. Do you live in a country that has a big enough social safety net that you trust it to provide you the necessary income and healthcare so that you can just paint and play chess all day? I certainly don't... I live in the U.S.A :-/

Safety nets only work while there are people paying (a lot of) taxes.

Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#810

Post by getnormality »

dzonga wrote: post #375

Insightful Comment from X - https://xcancel.com/PlumbNick/status/2016500347053773198?s=2... I was an L7, I led global AI enablement. I built systems executives depended on, moved wherever the company needed me and fixed problems that had been sitting untouched because no one else could untangle them. And I was still cut. Here’s the part we’re all supposed to politely ignore: in the U.S. right now, experience isn’t an…

> experience isn’t an asset, it’s a liability

Weirdly impressive. This guy just invented galaxy-brained AI slop.

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