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Danish pension fund divesting US Treasuries

reuters.com

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Re: Danish pension fund divesting US Treasuries

#801

Post by etc-hosts »

OrvalWintermute wrote: post #329
etc-hosts wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should all be more shocked the US kidnapped the leader of another country.

That previous US leaders permitted Western Hemisphere nations to get so in bed with rival hegemonies for so long is the shocking thing. Remember the Cuban Missile Crisis?

I closely follow all of this, to the detriment of my job. I'm amused that the US State Dept's PR is that "Maduro is selling oil to our enemies."

We've frozen Venezuela out from buying or selling anything from any other country. This is how economic sanctions work. If a company or country does business with Venezuela, we block them from doing business in the USA.

What else is Venezuela supposed to do? Of course they're going to sell oil to countries that we don't like. It's the first thing that happens when we place severe economic sanctions on another country.

Re: Danish pension fund divesting US Treasuries

#802

Post by tinfoilhatter »

actionfromafar wrote: post #799
tinfoilhatter wrote: post #793

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except governments around the world have been talking about a digital dollar / digital currencies for years now. I'm not sure exactly what is so outlandish about it. The fiat system is collapsing, and the signs are quite plain to see. Can't print fake money forever...

Usually, what they mean is fiat tokens, minted much like paper currency.

There's a large difference between fiat currency and what you're calling fiat tokens. One is extremely difficult to trace - the other is extremely easy and allows the nation states that are "minting" them to track every transaction being made with them.

They are nothing like paper currency outside of being another abstraction of actual value and being issued / controlled by the banking cartel.

Re: Danish pension fund divesting US Treasuries

#803

Post by matthewdgreen »

kyboren wrote: post #305
jacquesm wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a one sided thing. The US has been allowed to do a lot of things under the NATO umbrella that it benefited from (such as: selling a vast quantity of arms). Soft power is a thing and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization came into being to deal with exactly the kind of situation that we are viewing today. To see the US bow out, and in fact threatening allies is duplicitous at best.

NATO came into being to deal with the USSR, which was the preeminent threat to all NATO members. The US wasn't expected just to come save Europe; European states had real military power and the will to bring it to bear against the US's main adversary. In a conflict with the USSR, the US could rely on Europe to fight with them. Very valuable. Today, US policymakers see China as the main adversary. But European states…

Don't be ridiculous. The US alone cannot stand up to China. We can't even build ships anymore. Parity is only possible with an alliance comprising the full economic and manufacturing might of the "free" developed world, which includes Europe and the rest of Asia. Losing Europe as a close military and trading ally is suicidal all by itself, but it has knock-on effects: once you've abandoned Europe, do you think the rest of your allies are going to believe you're there for them? Why should South Korea risk its security building ships for a US military alliance, once we've signaled that the US values its military alliances at zero?

Re: Danish pension fund divesting US Treasuries

#804

Post by direwolf20 »

xwolfi wrote: post #682
coolspot wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China cares more about Europe than Russia. Because that's where the real money is. “Real money” aka resources are very obviously in Russia, not Europe.

Resources to fuel factories to sell to who ? They don't care about resources if they lose their clients.

Themselves? Why would China want to sell to European citizens more than to Chinese citizens, if they don't get something in return?

Re: Danish pension fund divesting US Treasuries

#805

Post by hwhehwhehegwggw »

snapcaster wrote: post #516
hwhehwhehegwggw wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? All the best companies the world have seen recently is in US though. Google, Apple, Nvidia to name a few. What am I missing in your argument?

They're implying that the US is exceptional due to its access to cheap credit, not due to some inherent superiority. Your comment listing off successful american companies seems to agree with him if anything. Maybe you misread the comment and got a little defensive?

Ahh. Makes sense. I did get defensive. Bit not sure why. I don't even live in US.

Re: Danish pension fund divesting US Treasuries

#806

Post by RealityVoid »

alwillis wrote: post #692
everyone wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people of the USA really remind me of the people of Russia: totally depoliticized. I think in the USA many people are really focused on a pointless culture war yet aren't politically active at all.

> The people of the USA really remind me of the people of Russia: totally depoliticized. I think in the USA many people are really focused on a pointless culture war yet aren't politically active at all. If anything, the opposite is true. Citizens who've never protested in their lives are now in the streets. Off-year elections have had record turnouts. 154–155 million people voted in the 2024 presidential election; t…

Would have been super useful if they woke up like... A year ago. I'm afraid we might be past the point of no return. The relationships are already irreversibly damaged.

Re: Danish pension fund divesting US Treasuries

#807

Post by rhubarbtree »

marcusverus wrote: post #511
brookst wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the symbolism more than direct financial impact. You get 100 moves like this and it starts to become real money.

100 moves of this size (~$10B) would make up 0.1% of foreign-held US treasuries (~$8.5T).

And the big European nations own ~ 23% of US debt. This is not a one-sided contest. Oddly, it does feel like trump is what europe needed to wake up from its slumber. With new AI / startup funding, the rebuild of their military, and opening up to china this could be the making of the EU into a true superpower. About time.

Edit: percentage down from 30% clarify debt

Re: Danish pension fund divesting US Treasuries

#808

Post by rangestransform »

DangitBobby wrote: post #788
_zagj wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Soft power is a thing This is the usual claptrap Euros and Eurosimps come up with when Americans gripe about subsidizing Europe's defense. "Soft power" isn't putting money back in Americans' pockets, and the primary beneficiaries of NATO clearly didn't like us very much even before Trump's return, when Biden was still president and the aid flowed freely to Kyiv: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/06/11/views-o…

Apart from it just being morally and ethically righteous for rich countries to share their wealth globally, American "soft power" serves as a gesture of good will to the world so they will tolerate a strong dollar (so we get to play global economics on easy mode) and American hegemony generally. When we stop exercising "soft power" everyone will just resent our relative comfort and suddenly decide they aren't okay wi…

Is it morally and ethically righteous toward the people of the rich countries? A country owes everything to its citizens and nothing to anyone else, and pretending otherwise led to resentment toward foreign aid including some realpolitik justified programs like USAID. When programs are sold to the people as being selfless while people are less fortunate than the social media influencers they watch every day, it’s only natural that they resent the government for seemingly giving resources away.

Re: Danish pension fund divesting US Treasuries

#809

Post by _zagj »

collingreen wrote: post #766
_zagj wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Soft power is a thing This is the usual claptrap Euros and Eurosimps come up with when Americans gripe about subsidizing Europe's defense. "Soft power" isn't putting money back in Americans' pockets, and the primary beneficiaries of NATO clearly didn't like us very much even before Trump's return, when Biden was still president and the aid flowed freely to Kyiv: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/06/11/views-o…

Are the constantly crowing, entitled ingrates with their condescending lectures in the room right now?

Yeah, they're the ones trying to gaslight Americans into believing that NATO hasn't been a completely lopsided relationship since the end of the Cold War, and that it makes complete sense that Americans be treaty-bound to defend nations like Sweden (which lifted not one finger when Finland was invaded by the Soviet Union and its territory annexed, and also later when Norway was invaded and occupied by Nazi Germany), a country where less than half of the population had a favorable view of us as a nation, before Trump.

Obviously I don't agree with his threats over Greenland, but acting like the end of NATO would be a huge loss for the US is ridiculous. Look at how obsequious European heads of government are towards Trump, even in the face of these threats; that tells you all you need to know about whom NATO truly benefits. They know if the US withdraws from Europe completely, they'll have to up their military spending considerably to plug the gaps, which will strain the welfare state.

Re: Danish pension fund divesting US Treasuries

#810

Post by seanmcdirmid »

_zagj wrote: post #809
collingreen wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the constantly crowing, entitled ingrates with their condescending lectures in the room right now?

Yeah, they're the ones trying to gaslight Americans into believing that NATO hasn't been a completely lopsided relationship since the end of the Cold War, and that it makes complete sense that Americans be treaty-bound to defend nations like Sweden (which lifted not one finger when Finland was invaded by the Soviet Union and its territory annexed, and also later when Norway was invaded and occupied by Nazi Germany),…

>Yeah, they're the ones trying to gaslight Americans into believing that NATO hasn't been a completely lopsided relationship since the end of the Cold War, and that it makes complete sense that Americans be treaty-bound to defend nations like Sweden

Sweden just joined NATO in 2024, so what does the cold war have to do with it?

> a country where less than half of the population had a favorable view of us as a nation, before Trump.

Ok? Yes, it was looking like Sweden thought Russia was the bigger threat, so they joined NATO in 2024, but I guess Trump is making them regret this.

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