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The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

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Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#801

Post by alex43578 »

reubenswartz wrote: post #696
alex43578 wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Has enforcement been explicitly prioritized based on political control of areas? Yes, senior directives and public statements emphasized prioritizing deportations in Democratic-led cities. Florida, Texas, and others use local law enforcement to enforce immigration detainers and cooperate with federal enforcement. Makes sense to go where the problems are . >Suppression of lawful civic activity? Yes, crowd-control for…

> So when Clinton’s BP raided Elian Gonzalez That followed a court order. And many people were very upset about it. >We’ve enforce immigration laws, policed our populace, and had to balance 1st/4th amendment rights against the interest of a functioning state for a long time. Nothing on this scale since the internment of Japanese Americans in WWII. And even that did not involve (AFAIK) the mass disappearances and tort…

>Nothing on this scale since the internment of Japanese Americans in WWII

Obama removed more people than Trump. Clinton removed and returned more people than any president. Crazy the world didn’t end in the 90s or 2010s, huh?

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#802

Post by mosura »

mrguyorama wrote: post #556
mosura wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn’t new though. The whole reason it is such a mess now is it was equally deliberately ignored for decades.

Obama was "Deporter in chief" You are just wrong. America didn't even really have borders for most of it's existence, as the very idea of a Nation wasn't really a thing until into the 1800s. We had a purposely pourous border with Mexico until relatively recently. How many mexican immigrants do you happen to think live in Minneapolis ?

While a pan-US national awareness is widely seen as emerging during the civil war the rest of what you are saying is disingenuous. Prior to that it was a selection of colonies etc. which very much had borders because skirmishes over taxation rights was a thing.

There was significantly more inter ethnic strife in the US pre WW2 than most people seem to appreciate, much of it relating to if encountered (by whatever means) people should be settled/assimilated/rejected. There were riots/protests of this type in major cities at least between the civil war and the 1930s, and state policy reflected this, such as with the Chinese exclusion act which would hardly have been possible without a border.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#803

Post by senordevnyc »

embedding-shape wrote: post #433
senordevnyc wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same reason you guys don't just deal with any of the big problems facing Spain that collective action would solve pretty quickly?

What physical government oppression have I missed now? I'm not trying to claim Spain is perfect, because it really isn't, especially considering "freedom of speech" (depending on your perspective of it) and some other things Americans might take for granted. But I'd say that usually when there are large issues impacting large parts of the population, then you can be pretty sure that there will be country-wide protest…

My point is that what Americans face here is a collective action problem, which is no different than many of the problems facing Spain. While you might go out and protest, there are other collective action problems you're not solving today, even though you could if you took action as a group.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#804

Post by mosura »

pstuart wrote: post #539
nullocator wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. One old man and a bunch of malicious zealots at his side are introducing a tremendous amount of instability into the country and the world at large; just like they did with his first term, only now less inhibited.

The problem is the old man and his enablers have zero respect for the law, whereas the other team does (they are not above reproach but in this regard they are distinctly different). This makes the fight unfair, as without law all we have is unbridled violence as a tool and that is a path to ruin for all.

> have zero respect for the law

They are simply enforcing a law that people have had every opportunity to democratically change in the decades since it just stopped being enforced properly, and yet they failed to secure a democratic mandate to do so.

Complaining from that position is far from being on a moral high ground.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#805

Post by chaps »

Izkata wrote: post #785
chaps wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please understand where I'm coming from: My mom's dad was shot and killed by police. Absolutely nobody in my family knows anything about it, but the default is "he was a bad person and deserved it" or, "he probably did something wrong." The coroner's report shows his death as a suicide, despite police shooting and killing him. This was a time before cameraphones and before I was even born, so it's impossible for me,…

> You can do better, friend. So can you. Your past experience was terrible, but that's no reason to ignore or misrepresent what others are saying. What GP and I are both seeing in the Renee video is assault with a deadly weapon on a law enforcement officer. Lethal force is a valid response. That doesn't mean she deserves it, but that she was doing something stupid without realizing just how stupid it was. Most of the…

> That doesn't mean she deserves it, but that she was doing something stupid without realizing just how stupid it was

Am I right to say that your argument can be summarized as, "She didn't deserve it, but her actions were deserving of it"? Or maybe "merited"?

I'm genuinely confused by what you mean by "deserves".

(just to be explicit, the disagreement we have here is very much about what the word "deserves" means rather than anything productive)

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#806

Post by ethbr1 »

potato3732842 wrote: post #600
dragonwriter wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So this was the whole point with the 2nd amendment right, that when/if the government repress you in that way, you have weapons to fight back? The point of the second amendment was, in no small part, so that the central government wouldn't deny the states the means to commit genocide against the indigenous population on their own, because the states didn't trust he central government to be sufficiently enthusiastic…

>The point of the second amendment was, in no small part, so that the central government wouldn't deny the states the means to commit genocide against the indigenous population on their own, What kind of revisionist history is this? The feds were telling the states "screw off, we do the negotiating" before the ink was even dry on that. Steamrolling the natives was never really a seriously contested job or a point of…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the case of the Cherokee forced relocation from Georgia, the Georgia state government told the federal government (Andrew Jackson) that if the gold-bearing lands weren't depopulated of indigenous peoples then the state would start killing them (after already having terrorized them with armed state militia).

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#807

Post by lokar »

Steven420 wrote: post #686
chaps wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry that you think she deserved death.

I don't think that she deserved death. It's unfortunate that you are misrepresenting my comments. I believe that she made a series of bad decisions and was solely responsible for what occurred. I understand that we are living in emotional times but arguing in bad faith does not improve the situation. We should maybe stop this discussion as it doesn't seem that we are getting anywhere. I hope that you have a good day

It has been well established that ICE agents are intentionally stepping in front of slow moving cars to justify a claim of self defense.

They also intentionally bump into people and then claim they are being assaulted. Their superiors have made it clear that will face no consequences for this, and they have aggressive quotas to meet.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#808

Post by well_ackshually »

no-dr-onboard wrote: post #200
libraryatnight wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume if someone works for Palantir they're an unabashed Yarvinist and fine with it.

That's a pretty broad generalization, but OK I'll bite. - I think Yarvin has a lot of good points. No one should be ashamed to admit the truth of a matter. I can't stand his voice, I think he has annoying mannerisms, but nonetheless the man has a point and I'm not ashamed (especially by unknown and strange online personas) to say so. - Palantir is objectively a profitable job. I've learned a lot here and the people I…

>I don't think I have "blood on my hands" and rather instead think that people who use that tactic are resorting to strange emotional manipulation in place of a salient argument.

Yes, yes, the little hands at the gestapo that were just filling up forms for deportation do not have blood in their hands, we know. Tried and failed defense, many times.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#809

Post by deeg »

alex43578 wrote: post #796
deeg wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not the most compelling case: Does not matter one bit. Law enforcement may not break down doors without a warrant except in limited cases. This was not one of them. They violated the constitution and our way of life. > Legal ones... I'm guessing you didn't read the cite. It clearly shows that undocumented immigrants commit significantly less crime. Once you read it I'd be interested to know if it changes your opini…

The majority of illegal immigrants did commit a crime by virtue of being illegals, violating 8 U.S.C. 1325, so the crime-rate for illegals is certainly higher than non-immigrants right out of the gate. For the less-than-half who have “only” committed civil immigration violations, the point still remains that they are here illegally and are subject to civil immigration proceedings.

So no comment about illegally knocking down doors? No comment about stopping naturalization ceremonies?

I'll go back to this: if we wanted to reduce crime, we'd go after citizens first.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#810

Post by throwawayiceout »

asa400 wrote: post #560
embedding-shape wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all those things happened in Spain where I live, I'm 99% we'd have actual riots on the streets, together with a lot of other unpleasant-but-needed civilian action, until things got better, like we've done in the past (sometimes maybe went slightly overboard with it, but better than nothing). Why are Americans so passive? You're literally transitioning into straight up authoritarianism, yet where are the riots? How…

First, all of what you say is true. I'm going to try to add a little context as someone who is here on the ground, in the city in question. There is the imminent threat of mass death, and no one here is under any illusions about it. Every ICE agent is armed, and most have ready access to automatic weapons. These are not well-trained members of an elite organization with a storied, patriotic culture. ICE is a personal…

Well said, thank you, and keep safe.

What I feared would happen appears to be happening on Saturday: anti-immigrant anti-muslim folks from outside the city and outside the state are gathering to rally in the Minneapolis Cedar-Riverside neighborhood and cause trouble.

The federal administration will use this to ratchet up the violence against peaceful protesters like myself, who are simply trying to stand up for our neighbors and friends and our city and our state. We have whistles and cell phones. The federal government has guns and is killing us.

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