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The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

noheger.at

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Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#801

I've upgraded because I wanted to have access to the latest OS features but I got to admit I'm not a fan of the UI either. I have an M3 Max with 128GB and sometimes my computer UI feels sluggish. What is even going on? My biggest beef is there seems to be a lot of bugs in Safari. If I open Discord and switch tabs a few minutes later the tab is dead and a refresh doesn't work you need to retype the discord address aga…

They've made Tahoe available on some older Intel hardware, and in my case it rendered my MacBook Pro barely usable. Obvious planned obsolescence in this case convinced me to fully jump ship.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#802
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to beat on my own drum but as a mac convert from the days of Tiger I saw the writing on the wall from miles away. Still on iOS 18 and macOS 15 (Sequoia). I was a day one upgrader up until now, never had any regrets but this time things seemed very different. It's worrisome but all is not lost, I'll start sweating for real if next year's releases don't improve things substantially.

Maybe you didn’t catch this yet, but Apple pulled their latest iOS 18.7.3 update and they seem to only promote iOS 26 now. They really want everyone off iOS 18 :/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2026/01/07/hundreds-...

They don't allow you to upgrade to iOS 18.7.3 if your device supports iOS 26.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#803
post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked on Finder/TimeMachine/Spotlight/iOS at Apple from 2000-2007. I worked closely with Bas Ording, Stephen Lemay, Marcel van Os, Imran Chaudry, Don Lindsey and Greg Christie. I have no experience with any of the designers who arrived in the post-Steve era. During my time, Jony Ive didn't figure prominently in the UI design, although echoes of his industrial design appeared in various ways in the graphic design o…

Thanks for this interesting read. I’m asking you to judge people’s state of mind here, which is near impossible, but please bear with me… > Several team members paid dearly in emotional abuse under Steve and decided to leave rather than deal with the environment post Steve's death. Normally during an event like this there is a change in culture as well which I think we have seen under Cook. So why did they assume tha…

This question is forcing me to do some deep thinking about my time there, which I haven't done is quite a awhile.

Some people left early, like Don Lindsay. Don was instrumental in bringing Aqua to life, along with Bas of course, and led the team up and through the release of Cheetah and more. This task wasn't easy at all. To me it seems like he was finally going to receive some reward of those hard years of work. But instead he chose to leave to go to Microsoft. This boggled my mind, as leaving to Microsoft to me seemed incomprehensible. Maybe Don had enough of the abuse? Maybe he was sick of the increasingly crowded commute? The daily visits from Steve pointing out every detail of the UI that bothered him? Did you know the UX designed many of the big banners and posters for the WWDC events. Steve didn't want any old graphic designer to do those, so Bas, Imran and others would work on them. Don had to deal with that too.

When Steve left to receive cancer treatment in 2004, he still had influence, Bertrand Serlet was running engineering, Jony Ive was focussed on industrial design. We were working on Tiger with the brushed metal interface and there was a lot of activity on that. Tim Cook was running the business, but Bas and others were keeping the ball rolling on the UX with remote input from Steve.

I wasn't around for the next two leaves of absence, the last one being final, but heard that things were becoming increasingly fractious with camps emerging around Tony Fadell, Scott Forstall, Jony Ive and general politcal unpleasantness as Tim Cook was given various ultimatums about "I won't work with this or that person." Everyone was trying to say that they represented the vision of Steve and somehow knew what would Steve do given any sitution. Geez, if we knew what Steve would do or wanted, there could have been a lot of really distressing confrontations avoided over the previous years.

This type of internal sniping didn't happen with Steve around, or if it did, it wasn't very effective. I think it would have gotten you fired. Tony Fadell pushed it to the limit with Steve and Scott. I remember someone once asking Steve about getting free lunch at Apple, like you could get at Google and they were told "If all you want is free lunch, then you should be working at Google."

For me, there was a certain amount of clarity that came from Steve's abusive behavior. It could wear you down on one level, but also brought focus and drive to getting things done. I think it was very unhealthy one one level and very exciting on another. There weren't endless meeting on calendars discussing minutia. It also meant that the obvious horrors of the Tahoe wouldn't happen. Steve himself would have grabbed the windows with different corner radii, stacked them up and excoriated whoever was responsible. Some of my work was called "real bottom of the barrel shit", "the worst he has ever seen" and told "this is not the way we do things at Apple." I assure you, what he was complaining about was nothing remotely close to what we are seeing in Tahoe.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#804

I game on windows because of anti cheat software requirements. Windows is garbage. The windows + tab order is never consistent. Not having a good built in shell and don't get me started if you ever have to edit the registry for anything. Super poor experience.

I fully agree, but the winkey + tab order is simply in order of last used, with the most recent being at the upper left and oldest at the lower right.

Interesting! Thanks for that

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#805

Should we crowdfund some billboards in Cupertino expressing how big a misstep we collectively think Tahoe/iOS 26/Liquid glAss was?

No. Direct that money to open source projects and let Apple ruin itself.

There's no relief in open source. I've watched Ubuntu and Gnome copy some of Apple and Microsoft's worst ideas over the last 20 years and somehow put an even worse spin on them. I fully expect to see "Gnome 52 - Liquid Sugar" or something in a couple of years.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#806
post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What feels plausible to me is changing the underlying 19x19 px control would break layout of many existing apps, and the design team was hell bent that window corners had to be that round. I’d say it’s simply form over function, and that likely a meta-level argument about user empowerment or whatnot won.

There's also the problem that not every window in Tahoe has the same corner radius. Some people thought this was laziness/lack of polish or a bug, but Alan Dye confirmed on a podcast that it was intentional. So then they're left with a conundrum: do they adjust the 19x19 region on a per-window basis, depending on the per-window corner radius, or do they stick with one standard drag region? Probably it should be the f…

Do you recall what podcast? I know hearing him say this was intentional is only gonna make me frustrated, but I’m dying to hear the justification for such a bad decision.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#807
post #9

Tahoe is a macOS mis-step on par with Windows 8 or Windows Vista. If you’re from Apple and reading this, my feedback is pretty succinct: “I don’t recommend others upgrade. I wish I didn’t.” Luckily for Apple, Windows 11 is not exactly in a position to attract switchers. Let’s see if Apple can turn things around. iOS 8+ did improve on iOS 7’s worst bits.

first time i used tahoe to help a friend w/ their laptop i legit thought it was like a knockoff macos or something, genuinely the ugliest macos version and even in the brief time that i've used it, i've encountered annoying bugs, QC at apple is dead lowkey

When the iOS 26 video player first leaked, I thought to myself, this has to be some kind of April 1st joke or a knock-off smear campaign or something. Nope, Apple did really half-assed their entire iOS to the ground.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#808

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can install any version of macOS that was ever supported for your Mac. (It’s been a long time since they used System Enablers.) I’m so frustrated with Tahoe that I’m about to do this.

Safari can't be upgraded past a certain point on older versions of macOS. That can cause certain websites to break. Minor but annoying.

While we're talking about Safari, it also developed this bug where picture-in-picture leaks memory like crazy where it sometimes consumes over 80GB of RAM, gets compressed to nothing but freezes the app to the point where I cannot type anything in the address bar.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#810

I swear, this reign of visual artists as dictators has to stop. I'm sure people noticed this issue internally and brought it up but some thing by some designer was seen as biblically sacred and overruled all reason. I've been at companies were you get severely punished... sometimes fired for subordination for fixing an obviously broken spec by a designer emperor. It's normal to be "I guess 2+2=5 here, whatever" as if…

I want OS vendors to stop prioritizing "design" above performance. Opening a Finder window used to be instant, now it takes 0.3s-1s. Opening Safari used to be instant, now it takes seconds. Even menus in the menu bar take a few dozen milliseconds too long, which becomes obvious when you compare it to apps with custom truly-instant hamburger menus.

Computers are faster than ever, every task other than UI rendering is finished faster than ever, but these geniuses keep slowing down the UI with every update. It's criminal.

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