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GPT-5.2

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Re: GPT-5.2

#801
post #765

In my experience, the best models are already nearly as good as you can be for a large fraction of what I personally use them for, which is basically as a more efficient search engine. The thing that would now make the biggest difference isn't "more intelligence", whatever that might mean, but better grounding. It's still a big issue that the models will make up plausible sounding but wrong or misleading explanations…

> It's still a big issue that the models will make up plausible sounding but wrong or misleading explanations for things, and verifying their claims ends up taking time. And if it's a topic you don't care about enough, you might just end up misinformed. Exactly! One important thing LLMs have made me realise deeply is "No information" is better than false information. The way LLMs pull out completely incorrect explana…

> wrong or misleading explanations

Exactly the same issue occurs with search.

Unfortunately not everybody knows to mistrust AI responses, or have the skills to double-check information.

Re: GPT-5.2

#802
post #357

I have been using chatGPT a ton over the last months and paying the subscription. Used it for coding, news, stock analysis, daily problems, and a whatever I could think of. I decided to give Gemini a go when version three came out to great reviews. Gemini handles every single one of my uses cases much better and consistently gives better answers. This is especially true for situations were searching the web for curre…

I’ve been putting literally the same inputs into both ChatGPT and Gemini and the intuition in answers from Gemini just fits for me. I’m now unwilling to just rely on ChatGPT. Google, if you can find a way to export chats into NotebookLM, that would be even better than the Projects feature of ChatGPT.

[deleted]

Re: GPT-5.2

#803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of these have happened in my use. Those were both the product of some pretty aggressive prompting, and were remedied months ago.

Yet, using this model in any way whatsoever after these episodes seems absolutely crazy to me.

Grok is the only frontier model that is at all usable for adult content.

Re: GPT-5.2

#804
post #790
post #765

In my experience, the best models are already nearly as good as you can be for a large fraction of what I personally use them for, which is basically as a more efficient search engine. The thing that would now make the biggest difference isn't "more intelligence", whatever that might mean, but better grounding. It's still a big issue that the models will make up plausible sounding but wrong or misleading explanations…

So there's two levels to this problem. Retrieval. And then hallucination even in the face of perfect context. Both are currently unsolved. (Retrieval's doing pretty good but it's a Rube Goldberg machine of workarounds. I think the second problem is a much bigger issue.)

Re: retrieval: That's where the snake eats its tail as AI slop floods the web, grounding is like laying a foundation in a swamp. And that Rube Goldberg machine tries to prevent the snake from reaching its tail. But RGs are brittle and not exactly the thing you want to build infrstructure on. Just look at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46239752 for an example how easy it can break.

Re: GPT-5.2

#805
post #357

I have been using chatGPT a ton over the last months and paying the subscription. Used it for coding, news, stock analysis, daily problems, and a whatever I could think of. I decided to give Gemini a go when version three came out to great reviews. Gemini handles every single one of my uses cases much better and consistently gives better answers. This is especially true for situations were searching the web for curre…

I’ve been putting literally the same inputs into both ChatGPT and Gemini and the intuition in answers from Gemini just fits for me. I’m now unwilling to just rely on ChatGPT. Google, if you can find a way to export chats into NotebookLM, that would be even better than the Projects feature of ChatGPT.

notebooklm is heavily biased to only use the sources i added and frame every task around them - even if it is nonsensical - so it is not that useful for novel research. it also tends to hallucinate when lots of data is involved.

Re: GPT-5.2

#806
post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using my parents as a reference, they just thought it was neat when I showed them GPT-4 years ago. My jaw was on the floor for weeks, but most regular folks I showed had a pretty "oh thats kinda neat" response. Technology is already so insane and advanced that most people just take it as magic inside boxes, so nothing is surprising anymore. It's all equally incomprehensible already.

LLMs are an especially tough case, because the field of AI had to spend sixty years telling people that real AI was nothing like what you saw in the comics and movies; and now we have real AI that presents pretty much exactly like what you used to see in the comics and movies.

But it cannot think or mean anything, it's just a clever parrot so it's a bit weird. I guess uncanny is the word. I use it as google now, like just to search stuff that are hard to express with keywords.

Re: GPT-5.2

#807
post #765

In my experience, the best models are already nearly as good as you can be for a large fraction of what I personally use them for, which is basically as a more efficient search engine. The thing that would now make the biggest difference isn't "more intelligence", whatever that might mean, but better grounding. It's still a big issue that the models will make up plausible sounding but wrong or misleading explanations…

Grounding in search results is what Perplexity pioneered and Google also does with AI mode and ChatGPT and others with web search tool. As a user I want it but as webadmin it kills dynamic pages and that's why Proof of work aka CPU time captchas like Anubis https://github.com/TecharoHQ/anubis#user-content-anubis or BotID https://vercel.com/docs/botid are now everywhere. If only these AI crawlers did some caching, but…

This dance to get access is just a minor annoyance for me, but I question how it proves I’m not a bot. These steps can be trivially and cheaply automated.

I think the end result is just an internet resource I need is a little harder to access, and we have to waste a small amount of energy.

From Tavis Ormandy who wrote a C program to solve the Anubis challenges out of browser https://lock.cmpxchg8b.com/anubis.html via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45787775

Guess a mix of Markov tarpits and llm meta instructions will be added, cf. Feed the bots https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45711094 and Nephentes https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42725147

Re: GPT-5.2

#808
post #765

In my experience, the best models are already nearly as good as you can be for a large fraction of what I personally use them for, which is basically as a more efficient search engine. The thing that would now make the biggest difference isn't "more intelligence", whatever that might mean, but better grounding. It's still a big issue that the models will make up plausible sounding but wrong or misleading explanations…

Yeah I basically always use "web search" option in ChatGPT for this reason, if not using one of the more advanced modes.

Re: GPT-5.2

#809

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's still a big issue that the models will make up plausible sounding but wrong or misleading explanations for things, and verifying their claims ends up taking time. And if it's a topic you don't care about enough, you might just end up misinformed. Exactly! One important thing LLMs have made me realise deeply is "No information" is better than false information. The way LLMs pull out completely incorrect explana…

> wrong or misleading explanations Exactly the same issue occurs with search. Unfortunately not everybody knows to mistrust AI responses, or have the skills to double-check information.

No, it's not the same. Search results send/show you one or more specific pages/websites. And each website has a different trust factor. Yes, plenty of people repeat things they "read on the Internet" as truths, but it's easy to debunk some of them just based on the site reputation. With AI responses, the reputation is shared with the good answers as well, because they do give good answers most of the time, but also hallucinate errors.

Re: GPT-5.2

#810
post #765

In my experience, the best models are already nearly as good as you can be for a large fraction of what I personally use them for, which is basically as a more efficient search engine. The thing that would now make the biggest difference isn't "more intelligence", whatever that might mean, but better grounding. It's still a big issue that the models will make up plausible sounding but wrong or misleading explanations…

It's increasingly a space that is constrained by the tools and integrations. Models provide a lot of raw capability. But with the right tools even the simpler, less capable models become useful.

Mostly we're not trying to win a nobel prize, develop some insanely difficult algorithm, or solve some silly leetcode problem. Instead we're doing relatively simple things. Some of those things are very repetitive as well. Our core job as programmers is automating things that are repetitive. That always was our job. Using AI models to do boring repetitive things is a smart use of time. But it's nothing new. There's a long history of productivity increasing tools that take boring repetitive stuff away. Compilation used to be a manual process that involved creating stacks of punch cards. That's what the first automated compilers produced as output: stacks of punch cards. Producing and stacking punchcards is not a fun job. It's very repetitive work. Compilers used to be people compiling punchcards. Women mostly, actually. Because it was considered relatively low skilled work. Even though it arguably wasn't.

Some people are very unhappy that the easier parts of their job are being automated and they are worried that they get completely automated away completely. That's only true if you exclusively do boring, repetitive, low value work. Then yes, your job is at risk. If your work is a mix of that and some higher value, non repetitive, and more fun stuff to work on, your life could get a lot more interesting. Because you get to automate away all the boring and repetitive stuff and spend more time on the fun stuff. I'm a CTO. I have lots of fun lately. Entire new side projects that I had no time for previously I can now just pull off in a spare few hours.

Ironically, a lot of people currently get the worst of both worlds because they now find themselves baby sitting AIs doing a lot more of the boring repetitive stuff than they would be able to do without that to the point where that is actually all that they do. It's still boring and repetitive. And it should be automated away ultimately. Arguably many years ago actually. The reason so many react projects feel like Ground Hog Day is because they are very repetitive. You need a login screen, and a cookies screen, and a settings screen, etc. Just like the last 50 projects you did. Why are you rebuilding those things from scratch? Manually? These are valid questions to ask yourself if you are a frontend programmer. And now you have AI to do that for you.

Find something fun and valuable to work on and AI gets a lot more fun because it gives you more quality time with the fun stuff. AI is about doing more with less. About raising the ambition level.

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