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Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

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Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#801

Post by TheFlyingFish »

cyberpunk wrote: post #798
liampulles wrote: post #784

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Python has a place in many developers toolkits. I've never met anyone who hates Python (though I'm sure they exist), whereas for pretty much any other language one could mention there are much more polarizing viewpoints. (as the saying goes "Python is everyone's second favorite programming language"). The Python team needs not feel any pressure to change to compete, Python has already done quite well and foun…

raises hand I hate python. Every python codebase i’ve had to look after has rotten to the point it doesn’t even build and is a maintenance nightmare. I also hate whitespace instead of {}

uv helps a lot with the first problem. Not so much with the second, though.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#802

Post by jmaker »

teiferer wrote: post #686
ederamen wrote: post #517

Uv is so good. I'm a curmudgeon about adopting new tooling, and tried uv with a lot of skepticism, but it was just better in every way. And even if it wasn't so polished and reliable, the raw speed makes it hard to go back to any other tool. Uv combined with type hints reaching critical mass in the Python ecosystem, and how solid PyLance is in VSCode, feels so good it has made me consider investing in Python as my pr…

> But then I remember that Python is dog slow compared to other languages with comparable ergonomics and first-class support for static typing, and...idk it's a tough sell. Case in point: uv itself is not written in Python. It's a Rust tool. It always amazes me when people work on an ecosystem for a language but then don't buy enough into that to actually use it to do the work. Avoidance of dogfooding is a big red fl…

In a similar vein, Microsoft TypeScript team picked Go for the new TypeScript transpiler engine.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#804

Post by liampulles »

cyberpunk wrote: post #798
liampulles wrote: post #784

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Python has a place in many developers toolkits. I've never met anyone who hates Python (though I'm sure they exist), whereas for pretty much any other language one could mention there are much more polarizing viewpoints. (as the saying goes "Python is everyone's second favorite programming language"). The Python team needs not feel any pressure to change to compete, Python has already done quite well and foun…

raises hand I hate python. Every python codebase i’ve had to look after has rotten to the point it doesn’t even build and is a maintenance nightmare. I also hate whitespace instead of {}

These issues are true of most legacy codebases I've worked on in other languages, but I think language design can be a factor here. Do you have any thoughts on if and how Python has led to this rot?

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#805

Post by hoherd »

mogoh wrote: post #803

Is it worth running uv inside a docker container?

Sometimes, yes, but I would say it depends a lot on your base image and project. If nothing else, it gives you a runtime environment that is identical to your development environment.

Using uv at build time can dramatically reduce your build times if you properly handle the uv cache. https://docs.astral.sh/uv/guides/integration/docker/#caching

It's also easy:

COPY --from=ghcr.io/astral-sh/uv:latest /uv /uvx /bin/

https://docs.astral.sh/uv/guides/integration/docker

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#806

Post by [deleted] »

BrenBarn wrote: post #668
taftster wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just create yourself an "everything" environment with UV and then experiment with it? Honest question. I think you're basically suggesting that you'd have a VM or something that has system-high packages already preinstalled and then use UV on top of it?

If so, it's certainly not obvious. I mean look at the docs: https://docs.astral.sh/uv/getting-started/features/ I don't see anything resembling "environments" in the list of features or in the table of contents. In some sections there is stuff like "When working on a project with uv, uv will create a virtual environment as needed", but it's all about environments as tied to particular projects (and maybe tools). You…

[deleted]

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#807

Post by philipallstar »

BrenBarn wrote: post #668
taftster wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just create yourself an "everything" environment with UV and then experiment with it? Honest question. I think you're basically suggesting that you'd have a VM or something that has system-high packages already preinstalled and then use UV on top of it?

If so, it's certainly not obvious. I mean look at the docs: https://docs.astral.sh/uv/getting-started/features/ I don't see anything resembling "environments" in the list of features or in the table of contents. In some sections there is stuff like "When working on a project with uv, uv will create a virtual environment as needed", but it's all about environments as tied to particular projects (and maybe tools). You…

> I don't want to be forced into foregrounding the project.

The advantage of being forced to do this is other people (including yourself on a new laptop) can clone your project, run uv install and get working. It's the death of "works on my machine" and "well it'll take them a couple of weeks to properly get up and running".

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#808

Post by omgmajk »

adastra22 wrote: post #403
embe42 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be interested in pixi, which is roughly to conda as uv is to pip (also written in Rust, it reuses the uv solver for PyPI packages)

I wish the Python ecosystem would just switch to Rust. Things are nice over here… please port your packages to crates.

> please port your packages to crates.

This is such a deeply unserious take. Do you have hundreds of thousands of hours to give out for free? No?

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#809

Post by DeathArrow »

rewgs wrote: post #698
miki123211 wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish we had a language that had the syntax of Python (notably including operator overloading, which is absolutely critical for neural networks, ML, data science and numerical computations), the performance, compile times and concurrency support of Go, the type system flexibility of Typescript, and the native platform integration of C/C++.

There's Mojo, but it's been a while since I've heard anything about it. https://www.modular.com/mojo

Is it ready to use? Does it have libraries, tools and documentation? Is it usable for anything else beside AI? Does it work on all major platforms?
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