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We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

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Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#801

Post by etherealG »

mothballed wrote: post #710
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

I don't own a phone, but the most shocking revelation came when my child's school required us to use an app to specify how our children will be picked up or ride the bus. So far I've been able to avoid using apps for pretty much anything, but when the school says "use an app or you won't get your kids" and then also say they will call CPS and have your kids seized if you don't get them in time, that puts you in a rea…

I think I might enjoy the CPS scenario... let them call CPS, and wait for CPS to arrive, and then discuss with CPS who is endangering the child, the parent or the school. I'm pretty sure a judge will quickly decide whether their rule makes sense or not, and I think judges in child protection cases are going to quickly side with what's important for the child.

I HATE this kind of nonsense, and threatening you as a parent is only making things worse. Why not offer a way to handle this on a simple website? It would have lower cost to the school and be more accessible to anyone with any device able to access websites. Nonsense.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#802

Post by fauigerzigerk »

eMPee584 wrote: post #797
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but to me there is a very big difference between being forced to adopt a class of technologies (online services in general) along with the rest of society and being forced to contract with a handful of specific companies that impose extremely one-sided contractual terms on everybody, touching almost every aspect of life.

Yes, but both permutations of digital coercion suck, right? ^^D

General technological progress may well suck in some cases, but it's not coercion.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#803

Post by ddingus »

guerrilla wrote: post #782
0xfaded wrote: post #773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's it like in Sweden? When I lived in Denmark the government had its own e-boks system for mail. I only ever accessed it via web, but I'm sure there's an app as well. Back then everything was authenticated via NemID which defaulted to the option of using codes printed on physical cards sent in the mail. I know they've moved to MitID now. Does anyone know if MitID can be installed on a de-googled device? Apparentl…

In Sweden, we have BankID for one thing. You can't do anything at all without it, including (in many cases) buying things online with your Visa or Mastercard. You can't even do stupid things like look up license plates or other simple tasks. You certainly can't deal very well with the medical system without it. In many cases even mail can be a pain in the ass without it. Then we have another problem. Cashlessness. Th…

Painful!

How does one get shut out?

Perhaps a story of his life now could be told to whatever politician may make sense? (I just do not know that for your part of the world)

Seems to me there must be some basic government run thing to manage this. Using corporations has too many problems.

And you may tell me BankID is government! Hope not.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#804

Post by yupyupyups »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #753
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

This. I really liked Huawei phones and I wanted to keep using them after the US forced them to part with Google, but after doing some research and finding out some of the everyday things I wouldn't be able to do due to not having the Google Play Services (I'm not even talking about not having a Google account!), I just gave up.

Huawei isn't much better in terms of user freedom.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#805

Post by mothballed »

etherealG wrote: post #801
mothballed wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't own a phone, but the most shocking revelation came when my child's school required us to use an app to specify how our children will be picked up or ride the bus. So far I've been able to avoid using apps for pretty much anything, but when the school says "use an app or you won't get your kids" and then also say they will call CPS and have your kids seized if you don't get them in time, that puts you in a rea…

I think I might enjoy the CPS scenario... let them call CPS, and wait for CPS to arrive, and then discuss with CPS who is endangering the child, the parent or the school. I'm pretty sure a judge will quickly decide whether their rule makes sense or not, and I think judges in child protection cases are going to quickly side with what's important for the child. I HATE this kind of nonsense, and threatening you as a par…

Well the judge will likely rule the app is bullshit, but in the meantime CPS will argue they need to go into your house, look to see if you have a dirty dish, or the wrong proportion of snacks to vegetables, or maybe take notice your child is playing independently outside while they come around. Then they will portray that in the most insane way possible, and since it is a civil and not criminal process their is no requirement anything is shown beyond a reasonable doubt.

There's also the problem that once they have your kid, the tables are completely turned, rather than them showing why they should take them, now you have to show why you should get them back and that is a process that can be dragged out for over a year.

Unfortunately CPS has wide latitude, secret courts, and the ability to unendingly fuck with you, so it's better just to not "invite" them in your life if you can. And if they do manage to snatch your kid, note they give so little fucks for the kid that their contractors will leave a kid in a hot car to die because apparently that's safer than being with their parents.[]

[] https://abcnews.go.com/US/3-year-dies-hot-car-custody-contra...

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#806

Post by fauigerzigerk »

mothballed wrote: post #784
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #776

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true. They are effectively a new type of non-territorial state with absolutely no separation of powers or rule of law or principle of proportionality. What makes this difficult though is that they are under constant attack from highly organised and automated criminal operations that create and exploit accounts en masse. Any solution to the tyrannical state of affairs we are subjected to (even more so as develope…

It's also used by the actual territorial state to project power through corporations, by influencing them to project their policies. I'm reminded of the story of the guy that had his google account shut down for "CSAM" because they took explicit medical pictures of their child at the directions of physicians, that were only privately shared solely for the purpose of aiding diagnosis. Apparently google works with the…

Yes, I think governments love centralisation of control in very few hands. It gives them far greater powers than they would otherwise have, both technically and legally.

"Harmful" content has significant overlap with freedom of speech, so governments find it hard to ban directly. But when there's a big corporation facilitating access to that content, then it becomes a clear case of "evil capitalist profiting from harmful content - corporations need to take responsibility!".

When a government doesn't like end-to-end encrypted photos and cloud drives, all they have to do is issue a secret order telling Apple to disable it.

And when people find workarounds for intrusive and insecure age verification methods, what's better than a total sideloading ban to regain control?

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#807

Post by wolvesechoes »

Turlututu wrote: post #452
wolvesechoes wrote: post #444

In my country two groups most hated by educated, civilized and self-labeled liberal people are miners and farmers. There are good reasons to not like them, especially miners (they have lot of privilege and cost a lot of money, whereas our (coal) mining industry is useless), but I came to the conclusion that the actual reason behind the hate is the fact that those two groups are able to force government to do their wi…

Have you heard about transversality of the fight? Do you have common ground with those farmers and coal miners? Do they have some with you. They are humans, after all. They feel and fear and hope. I come from a place famous for social unrest. A successful protest is one uniting the student to the truckers, to the miner to the teachers. Punching up. Not sideways or down. Their is a greater enemy than the farmers.

But I have nothing against miners or farmers, I just diagnosed why they are so resented - they succeed.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#808

Post by guerrilla »

ddingus wrote: post #803
guerrilla wrote: post #782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Sweden, we have BankID for one thing. You can't do anything at all without it, including (in many cases) buying things online with your Visa or Mastercard. You can't even do stupid things like look up license plates or other simple tasks. You certainly can't deal very well with the medical system without it. In many cases even mail can be a pain in the ass without it. Then we have another problem. Cashlessness. Th…

Painful! How does one get shut out? Perhaps a story of his life now could be told to whatever politician may make sense? (I just do not know that for your part of the world) Seems to me there must be some basic government run thing to manage this. Using corporations has too many problems. And you may tell me BankID is government! Hope not.

He gave a copy of his bank card to his ex-wife who was living in Uganda and using it there. The card was under his name though, which is against their policy. He could have easily gotten a card in her name, but he's extremely irresponsible in general (and doesn't really care what the rules are). They banned him for six months. He hasn't even bothered to figure out if it's automatically re-instated or whether he has to appeal. I don't know how such people live to be 65 years old.

The government isn't requiring BankID except for on their own services (where sometimes other options are provided). It's kind of just the most convenient thing that all agencies and businesses end up using. There's no laws around it, I mean. They all opted into it. It's run by a private consortium of banks.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#810

Post by joquarky »

cratermoon wrote: post #758
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

Remember those naive days when everyone was scared about Big Government running their lives? Remember how the Free Market™, unimpeded by government interference, was going to ensure our personal freedoms were never compromised? Good times.

Franchise-Organized Quasi-National Entities (FOQNEs)

AKA Peter Thiel's utopia

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