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Google will allow only apps from verified developers to be installed on Android

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Re: Google will allow only apps from verified developers to be installed on Android

#801

Post by dzogchen »

pimterry wrote: post #769
arielcostas wrote: post #765

Meaning to use your device you need to have a contractual relationship with a foreign (unless you are in the US) third party that decides what you can or cannot do with it. Plus using GrapheneOS is less of an option every day, since banks and other "regulated" sectors use Google Play Protect and similar DRMs to prevent you from connecting from whatever device you want. Client-side "trust" means the provider owning th…

I think Play Integrity is the fundamental issue here, and needs to go. That's the crux of the issue. Allowing apps to say "we only run on Google's officially certified unmodified Android devices" and tightly restricting which devices are certified is the part that makes changes like this deeply problematic. Without that, non-Google Android versions are on a fair playing field; if you don't like their rules, you can i…

HarmonyOS is open source (according to Wikipedia) but some of the tooling does not appear to be. I.e. can only get the simulator from mainland China.

Re: Google will allow only apps from verified developers to be installed on Android

#803

Post by rollcat »

arielcostas wrote: post #765

Meaning to use your device you need to have a contractual relationship with a foreign (unless you are in the US) third party that decides what you can or cannot do with it. Plus using GrapheneOS is less of an option every day, since banks and other "regulated" sectors use Google Play Protect and similar DRMs to prevent you from connecting from whatever device you want. Client-side "trust" means the provider owning th…

> Maybe it's time for a third large phone OS [...].

Apple and Google conspired to never allow that to happen. They've pushed Microsoft out of that sector. Microsoft! Name a bigger challenger.

Re: Google will allow only apps from verified developers to be installed on Android

#804

Post by giancarlostoro »

arielcostas wrote: post #765

Meaning to use your device you need to have a contractual relationship with a foreign (unless you are in the US) third party that decides what you can or cannot do with it. Plus using GrapheneOS is less of an option every day, since banks and other "regulated" sectors use Google Play Protect and similar DRMs to prevent you from connecting from whatever device you want. Client-side "trust" means the provider owning th…

> Android shouldn't be considered Open Source anymore

That idea died for me long ago, I had used Android since 2009 till 2020. I gave up on the dream of a Linux phone. Ubuntu had a nice sleek Phone UI they were working on. The issue is if nobody builds the phones and no carrier cares, nobody will pick it up. You need to push yourself into the market.

Microsoft could fill this weird gap if they wanted to the key things would be they would have to truly open source the OS. I could see Amazon trying again, but they'd need to invest a lot as well. It's an uphill battle needing a serious flagship phone. Your other problem is most apps need to be migrated.

Re: Google will allow only apps from verified developers to be installed on Android

#805

Post by brookst »

pimterry wrote: post #769
arielcostas wrote: post #765

Meaning to use your device you need to have a contractual relationship with a foreign (unless you are in the US) third party that decides what you can or cannot do with it. Plus using GrapheneOS is less of an option every day, since banks and other "regulated" sectors use Google Play Protect and similar DRMs to prevent you from connecting from whatever device you want. Client-side "trust" means the provider owning th…

I think Play Integrity is the fundamental issue here, and needs to go. That's the crux of the issue. Allowing apps to say "we only run on Google's officially certified unmodified Android devices" and tightly restricting which devices are certified is the part that makes changes like this deeply problematic. Without that, non-Google Android versions are on a fair playing field; if you don't like their rules, you can i…

If play integrity went away, all mainstream Android users would suddenly experience a huge increase in captchas and other security measures.

It’s funny to see the volume of comments on HN from folks who are outraged at how AI companies ferociously scrape websites, and the comments disliking device attestation, and few comments recognizing those are two sides of the same coin.

Play integrity (and Apple’s PAT) are what allow mobile users to have less headaches than desktops. Not saying it’s a morally good thing (tech is rarely moral one way or the rather) just that it’s a capability with both upsides and downsides for both typical and power users.

Re: Google will allow only apps from verified developers to be installed on Android

#806

Post by const_cast »

ozim wrote: post #737
medhir wrote: post #407

Every day we stray farther from the premise that we should be allowed to install / modify software on the computers we own. Will once again re-up the concept of a “right to root access”, to prevent big corps from pulling this bs over and over again: https://medhir.com/blog/right-to-root-access

Tell that to all those assholes that are making malware and scamming society on billions. Most of users are not able to keep themselves safe in the internet - they want to install all kind of crap without thinking too much. All of this is companies making it possible that average Joe could just click links, install any kind of crap and still be somewhat secure.

Google themselves promotes malware - take a look at the play store. Adware, adware, adware, name meant to confuse people, more adware, probably has a keyloggers, adware adware, probably steals your data, adware adware.

For fucks sake, Meta is at the point they're pulling malware tactics to sell ads.

Circumventing permissions for app to browser talking? Really? FOR ADS? Thats where we're at?

I'm over it. Anyone who thinks this has even the faintest thing to do with malware is legitimately delusional. Not misinformed, delusional.

Re: Google will allow only apps from verified developers to be installed on Android

#807

Post by nick486 »

arielcostas wrote: post #765

Meaning to use your device you need to have a contractual relationship with a foreign (unless you are in the US) third party that decides what you can or cannot do with it. Plus using GrapheneOS is less of an option every day, since banks and other "regulated" sectors use Google Play Protect and similar DRMs to prevent you from connecting from whatever device you want. Client-side "trust" means the provider owning th…

realistically, the end point for moderately tech savvy folks is going to a be two-device setup. one cheap phone for basic communication , all the corpo stuff like banking and shirt-and-tie social media + a wifi hotspot. then a second "practical use" device that uses the hotspot, that you fully control and do your tinkering with.

edit: coming to think of it, teaching people to have a device for the "clean stuff" and separate one for the "stupid stuff" could even turn out to be a benefit.

Re: Google will allow only apps from verified developers to be installed on Android

#808

Post by 0x445442 »

arielcostas wrote: post #765

Meaning to use your device you need to have a contractual relationship with a foreign (unless you are in the US) third party that decides what you can or cannot do with it. Plus using GrapheneOS is less of an option every day, since banks and other "regulated" sectors use Google Play Protect and similar DRMs to prevent you from connecting from whatever device you want. Client-side "trust" means the provider owning th…

We used to have a very nice option called Blackberry. Oh how I miss those phones.

Re: Google will allow only apps from verified developers to be installed on Android

#810

Post by rollcat »

Ciantic wrote: post #789
arielcostas wrote: post #765

Meaning to use your device you need to have a contractual relationship with a foreign (unless you are in the US) third party that decides what you can or cannot do with it. Plus using GrapheneOS is less of an option every day, since banks and other "regulated" sectors use Google Play Protect and similar DRMs to prevent you from connecting from whatever device you want. Client-side "trust" means the provider owning th…

> "GNU/Linux" touch version that has a serious ecosystem That is a very hard problem, unless someone with serious name recognition like Linus Torvalds starts to lead that kind of effort, or a big company like Microsoft suddenly decides that putting 1 billion towards GNU/Linux would be in their interest. With small efforts, it will remain scattered. Crowdfunding has a lot of power if there is name recognition behind t…

> [...] someone with serious name recognition like Linus Torvalds starts to lead that kind of effort [...]

Linus is a kernel hacker, and already busy tending to his own project.

"GNU/Linux" is effectively a committee of communities, with sometimes conflicting goals. It took Canonical and Valve to put things into shape on the desktop, and that's mostly because desktop was becoming less relevant.

I see two ways for things to change here:

- A massive, for-profit corporation, someone willing and able to challenge Google and Apple on an even ground, is hell-bent on making a Linux-based phone (Microsoft failed even after acquiring Nokia);

- Another platform shift happens, making smartphones irrelevant in comparison (think: when smartphones displaced desktops).

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