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My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

fly.io

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Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#801
Does no-one think ahead, for more than a moment?

> Professional software developers are in the business of solving practical problems for people with code.

Are we? Is that our job? You might think it is, and it might even feel like it. But it is not. Our job, in 99% of cases, is to make stock price go up. That means making software that people will buy, making people want to keep buying it, and doing whatever makes your investors happy.

So what happens as you use these tools? Your job changes from coder to "LLM manager", but let's assume you're happy with that. You're more "productive", which is an artificial metric and nothing to do with your real job as described above. That's fine for now, but what happens down the road? Now your company is paying more and more money to these LLM services, and paying you less and less.

> "but they take-rr jerbs" So does open source.

This is a gross misunderstanding of open source. Most open source developers are paid to be, full time, by companies. Why? Warm fuzzy feeling? Goodness of their heart? No. It's because it's good for business. These open source techs are a baseline, there' not worth being competitive on. Build the open base in the direction you want, and build the "business value" ontop for profit.

> We used to pay good money for databases.

We still do. Have you looked at managed PostgreSQL prices lately? Also if you haven't noticed, Oracle hasn't gone anywhere.

> LLMs really might displace many software developers. That’s not a high horse we get to ride. Our jobs are just as much in tech’s line of fire as everybody else’s have been for the last 3 decades.

This isn't the same thing as replacing punch cards, or moving away from Java 6, or replacing artisans with factory machines. This is centralisation and rent-seeking. As companies become more and more dependant on a handful of companies with the upfront capital to build massive server farms... what do you think is going to happen? Once they've convinced enough people that LLMs are essential to their work it's going to cost a lot more than $20/month. Once these companies are entrenched they will wring every last dollar out of every company that's grown to depend on them, many will simply fold.

Maybe we are in a seismic shift in our industry. But the beneficiaries are not going to be whole-hearted LLM adopters, no amount of saying "you need to change how you work" is going to save any of us. The only people that will benefit are going to be the people that own the data centres.

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#802

> Meanwhile, software developers spot code fragments seemingly lifted from public repositories on Github and lose their shit. What about the licensing? If you’re a lawyer, I defer. But if you’re a software developer playing this card? Cut me a little slack as I ask you to shove this concern up your ass. No profession has demonstrated more contempt for intellectual property. This kind of guilt-by-association play migh…

[deleted]

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#803

I think this article is pretty spot on — it articulates something I’ve come to appreciate about LLM-assisted coding over the past few months. I started out very sceptical. When Claude Code landed, I got completely seduced — borderline addicted, slot machine-style — by what initially felt like a superpower. Then I actually read the code. It was shockingly bad. I swung back hard to my earlier scepticism, probably even…

The better I am at solving a problem, the less I use AI assistants. I use them if I try a new language or framework. Busy code I need to generate is difficult to do with AI too. Because then you need to formalize the necessary context for an AI assistant, which is exhausting with an unsure result. So perhaps it is just simpler to write it yourself quickly. I understand comments being negative, because there is so muc…

> But often prompting is more complex than programming something. It may be more complex, but it is in my opinion better long term. We need to get good at communicating with AIs to get results that we want. Forgive me assuming that you probably didn't use these assistants long enough to get good at using them. I'm web developer for 20 years already and AI tools are multiplying my output even in problems I'm very good at. And they are getting better very quickly.

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#804
The one main claim the article makes: Senior developers should not ignore the productivity gains from LLMs.

Best use of evidence is deductive: Lots of code is tedious and uninteresting -> LLMs are fast at generating lots of tedious code -> LLMs help productivity.

Weakest part of the argument: The list of rebuttals doesn't have an obvious organization to it. What exactly is the main argument they're arguing against?

It's not stated outright but because the post is bookended by references to 'those smarter than me', I think this is an argument against the shaming of developers using (and loving) LLM tools.

Which I think is fair.

Overall, the post did not add anything to the general discussion. But the popularity of the author (and fly.io posts) may make it a beacon for some.

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#805

I think this article is pretty spot on — it articulates something I’ve come to appreciate about LLM-assisted coding over the past few months. I started out very sceptical. When Claude Code landed, I got completely seduced — borderline addicted, slot machine-style — by what initially felt like a superpower. Then I actually read the code. It was shockingly bad. I swung back hard to my earlier scepticism, probably even…

The better I am at solving a problem, the less I use AI assistants. I use them if I try a new language or framework. Busy code I need to generate is difficult to do with AI too. Because then you need to formalize the necessary context for an AI assistant, which is exhausting with an unsure result. So perhaps it is just simpler to write it yourself quickly. I understand comments being negative, because there is so muc…

I agree with your points but I'm also reminded of one my bigger learnings as a manager - the stuff I'm best at is the hardest, but most important, to delegate.

Sure it was easier to do it myself. But putting in the time to train, give context, develop guardrails, learn how to monitor etc ultimately taught me the skills needed to delegate effectively and multiply the teams output massively as we added people.

It's early days but I'm getting the same feeling with LLMs. It's as exhausting as training an overconfident but talented intern, but if you can work through it and somehow get it to produce something as good as you would do yourself, it's a massive multiplier.

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#807

"Kids today don’t just use agents; they use asynchronous agents. They wake up, free-associate 13 different things for their LLMs to work on, make coffee, fill out a TPS report, drive to the Mars Cheese Castle, and then check their notifications. They’ve got 13 PRs to review. Three get tossed and re-prompted. Five of them get the same feedback a junior dev gets. And five get merged." I would jump off a bridge before I…

> I get up in the morning to make things, not to watch others make things.

If you ever followed down the rabbit hole of children content on YouTube, the one that infants and toddlers end up after an hour of autoplay with some innocent cartoon at the beginning, you'd find among the piles of morbid psychotic trash a variety of videos of children watching someone else playing some games, a whole class of videos in itself.

I can't explain this with anything else but a coordinated effort to flash the norm of watching someone/something doing something as opposed to being engaged in immediate action yourself into the firmware of future people. This lines up with many other current trends pretty well. Talk about incrementing Baudrillard's level of simulation a notch up.

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#810
The author mentions that smart programmers kick off agents, then go for a coffee and wait to be notified.

But agents like Claude Code and Cursor run on a user’s machine right? So how can they work in the background like that? are there agents that can work async?

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