Live data from Hacker News

Widespread power outage in Spain and Portugal

bbc.com

801–810 of 1001 posts

Re: Widespread power outage in Spain and Portugal

#801

I'm going with: never attribute to malice what can be explained by ... an incredibly complex system that can fall over even if no-one's being stupid. I would want very strong evidence before I believe this is an attack. There is precedent for major power outages, a huge majority of which are not malicious: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_major_power_outages I remember the day when the Swiss railway power networ…

Seems to be caused by fire in France that connected Spain / France

Re: Widespread power outage in Spain and Portugal

#802

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to highlight this: the last significant power outage in Western/middle Europe was 2003. [1] That's 20 years without any significant problems in the grid, apart from small localized outages. It's not hard to start taking things for granted if it works perfectly for 20 years. Many people don't even have cash anymore, either in their wallet or at home. In case of a longer power outage a significant part of the popu…

> Many people don't even have cash anymore, either in their wallet or at home. Even if you have cash many shops would not sell anything in case of a mass outage because registers are just clients which depend on a cloud to register a transaction. Not reliable but cheap when it works.

Many supermarket chains (in the West at least) have satellite links at their major locations because they can't afford to close a store just because the local ISP had an issue.

The real question is how long can some of the smaller banks' datacenters stay up.

Re: Widespread power outage in Spain and Portugal

#803

This sounds big enough to require a black start. Unfortunately, those are slow and difficult. If an entire nation trips offline then every generator station disconnects itself from the grid and the grid itself snaps apart into islands. To bring it back you have to disconnect consumer loads and then re-energize a small set of plants that have dedicated black start capability. Thermal plants require energy to start up…

Interestingly it seems that the black start drill is considering a smaller zone of impact than what has happened here. Also I suspect there is far more renewables on the grid now than in 2016. This is potentially the first real black start of a grid with high renewable (solar/wind) penetration that I am aware of. Black starts with grids like this I imagine are much more technically challenging because you have genera…

This is potentially the first real black start of a grid with high renewable (solar/wind) penetration that I am aware of.

The South Australia System Black in 2016 would count - SA already had high wind and rooftop solar penetration back then. There's a detailed report here if you're interested:

https://www.aemo.com.au/-/media/Files/Electricity/NEM/Market...

Re: Widespread power outage in Spain and Portugal

#805
post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fewer resources we dedicate to grid resilience and modernization, the harder black starts become. And as grids get more complex and interdependent, recovering from total failure becomes exponentially harder. A rare but sobering opportunity to reflect on something we usually take for granted: electricity. We live in societies where everything depends on the grid — from logistics and healthcare to communications an…

Maybe a good reason (in parts of the world where this is practical) to have some solar + battery storage. Doesn't even need to fully replace grid power, just enough to run the barebones when the grid goes out.

If we are talking about a 72 hours blackout, I would be concerned about water and sewer working before one even thinks about home electricity.

Re: Widespread power outage in Spain and Portugal

#806
post #475

This sounds big enough to require a black start. Unfortunately, those are slow and difficult. If an entire nation trips offline then every generator station disconnects itself from the grid and the grid itself snaps apart into islands. To bring it back you have to disconnect consumer loads and then re-energize a small set of plants that have dedicated black start capability. Thermal plants require energy to start up…

In another life I worked as an engineer commissioning oil rigs and I’ve seen how tricky even a small-scale black start can be. On a rig, we simulate total power loss and have to hand-crank a tiny air compressor just to start a small emergency generator, which then powers the compressors needed to fire up the big ~7MW main generators. It's a delicate chain reaction — and that's just for one isolated platform. A full g…

I can’t see an answer here: how does an air compressor start an engine?

Re: Widespread power outage in Spain and Portugal

#807
post #806
post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In another life I worked as an engineer commissioning oil rigs and I’ve seen how tricky even a small-scale black start can be. On a rig, we simulate total power loss and have to hand-crank a tiny air compressor just to start a small emergency generator, which then powers the compressors needed to fire up the big ~7MW main generators. It's a delicate chain reaction — and that's just for one isolated platform. A full g…

I can’t see an answer here: how does an air compressor start an engine?

The compressor pressurizes an air tank. When the pressure in the tank is nice and high, use the compressed air to turn a turbine connected to the crankshaft of the engine.

Re: Widespread power outage in Spain and Portugal

#808
post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an ex small engine mechanic, I'd advise against using a 2 stroke for something like that. A 4 stroke would be a better bet. Better yet would be a natural gas/propane 4 stroke, since gasoline goes stale and plugs carburetors. Small diesels could be an option but they're harder to pull start for a given size.

Do you have any small engine mechanic books you'd recommend? They're my kryptonite, but I accept it's mostly my ignorance.

Not a manual in particular, but this is the Bob Ross of small engine repairs' channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr_GXW2Y56hOpGchXYNqZOQ

Re: Widespread power outage in Spain and Portugal

#809

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember talking to my ex's dad about his job, which involved planning refuels of a large nuclear-powered generation station in the Lower Midwest. The words "it's a miracle it works at all" routinely popped up in those conversations, which is... something you don't want to hear about any sort of power generation - especially not nuclear - but it's true. It's a system basically built to produce "common accidents". I…

> The words "it's a miracle it works at all" routinely popped up in those conversations, which is... something you don't want to hear about any sort of power generation - especially not nuclear - but it's true. Funny thing is, those are the exact words I use when talking to people about networking. And realistically anytime I dig deep into the underlying details of any big enough system I walk away with that impressi…

"Funny thing is, those are the exact words I use when talking to people about networking"

Computer networking is not the same. Our networks will not explode. I will grant you that they can be shite if not designed properly but they end up running slowly or not at all, but it will not combust nor explode.

If you get the basics right for ethernet then it works rather well as a massive network. You could describe it as an internetwork.

Basically, keep your layer 1 to around 200 odd maximum devices per VLAN - that works fine for IPv4. You might have to tune MAC tables for IPv6 for obvious reasons.

Your fancier switches will have some funky memory for tables of one address to other address translation eg MAC to IP n VLAN and that. That memory will be shared with other databases too, perhaps iSCSI, so you have to decide how to manage that lot.

Post reply on HN