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America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

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Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#801

Post by epolanski »

NoTeslaThrow wrote: post #670
epolanski wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We just don't want to employ people I don't think it's a matter of willingness, but simple global geo economics. There's places where producing A, whatever A is, is economically more efficient for countless reasons (energy prices, logistics, talent, bureaucracy, cost of labor, etc). That's not gonna change with whatever investment you want or tariff you put. But the thing I find more absurd, of all, is that I'd exp…

> I don't think it's a matter of willingness, but simple global geo economics. I don't see a difference. If we want local industry, we must address the global geo economics.

Nobody really wants a "local" industry as much as consumers want cheap prices and companies want global reach.

US manufacturing accomplishes higher prices and US only reach.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#802

Post by BriggyDwiggs42 »

nilkn wrote: post #321
imbusy111 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the important question is - is it worth it? Should we be doing something more valuable instead?

Depends -- do you want the US to become a vassal state of China? That's the trajectory we were on. China is going to catch up rapidly on technology, AI, and services, and before a few months ago the US was going to continue falling behind in every other conceivable area.

That’s a hilarious thing to say considering our behavior towards trade lately. We’ve burned bridges with our closest trading partners and made everyone else uncomfortable to trade with us because they don’t know what the eventual tariff rate will be, or if it will change tomorrow. We’re retreating from the world stage, and guess who’s sitting there ready to take the reins. It’s genuinely the opposite of what you seem to want.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#803

Post by BriggyDwiggs42 »

beeflet wrote: post #425
imbusy111 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the important question is - is it worth it? Should we be doing something more valuable instead?

yes it's worth it, no we should not be doing something more valuable

Ah, okay. Glad you got it all figured out then :)

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#804

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

HelloMcFly wrote: post #623
Arkhadia wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your rationality here will surely be flagged. Over apologizing is the new norm to avoid being canceled for dissenting opinions.

The commenter is right that you shouldn't have to state those kinds of beliefs, but pragmatically this is a message board that invites all sorts of responses. Those additional notes are an attempt to head-off annoying and wrongly-based counter-responses built on assumptions that shouldn't have been made . But just because they shouldn't be doesn't mean they won't be. Your comment evoking a victim complex on the other…

Thank you, because this is exactly why I did it, and will continue to.

So often when I write a comment I find responses either missing the point, laser focusing on something offhand/tangential I wrote, or imbuing my post with a viewpoint I didn't make. Sometimes the fault is mine, sometimes the fault of the responder.

I state where I'm coming from not as some sort of "tribal identifier", but simply to add clarity, and to stave off misdirected responses that I can find annoying.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#805

Post by BriggyDwiggs42 »

42772827 wrote: post #280
wormlord wrote: post #150

I think the collapse of the American Empire is no more preventible than the collapse of the British, Spanish, or Roman empires. The issues with the US being the reserve currency has been known for a while now (and was even predicted by Keynes before the Bretton-Woods summit): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triffin_dilemma Any discussion of "bringing back manufacturing" that doesn't mention government spending or socia…

The American Empire never existed, because it never could. The US made the explicit decision not to occupy the defeated forces after WWII, save for strategic forces in place to protect the interests of the host countries. The US opened its market (the only market of size left and still the largest consumer bases in the world, by far) with no tariffs. What the US got in return was cheap goods and a whole lot of debt.…

You don’t have to physically occupy a country to exert influence over it, and we weren’t “subsidizing the global order.” We profited from the order, so continued to bring it about. How do you think we became the economy we are today?

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#806

Post by BriggyDwiggs42 »

42772827 wrote: post #324
wormlord wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that an Empire does not need to be configured the exact same way as the Roman Empire, right? A combination of soft power, clandestine operations, and targeted military intervention is more resource-effective than a constant occupation, and should still be considered an empire.

The English will be glad to hear their empire remains!

Their empire worked differently.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#807

Post by LunaSea »

xethos wrote: post #792
LunaSea wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any job is a good job if you can live off of it. No, just no. There is a high variance in job qualities beyond pay. Work hours, over time, outside vs. office jobs, repetitive Vs. varied, physical and psychological impact, etc.

Those are preferences, and unique to each individual. I work in trades, I work the overnight shift, and I do 4 10's. I wouldn't want to change any of that. Someone else will feel more at home in an office, and that's okay. The important part is having a job, that you enjoy, and that allows you to live comfortably while saving for the future. It can be in IT, sales, management, maintenance, whatever - but some people…

> Those are preferences, and unique to each individual. I work in trades, I work the overnight shift, and I do 4 10's. I wouldn't want to change any of that. Someone else will feel more at home in an office, and that's okay.

No, those are not only preferences, they also have objective health impacts.

Working nights typically decreases life expectancy.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#808

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

habinero wrote: post #789
zmgsabst wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Harvard and UNC lost lawsuits about their DEI programs in admissions being illegal racism.

That doesn't counteract the point being made.

Uh, I think it does. A lot of people, myself included, have major problems when "overactive DEI" leads to race being a primary, if not the primary, factor in hiring and admissions decisions. This isn't something one should just "roll their eyes over" and move on.

FWIW, that was my original approach, and I thought that the worst excesses of "wokeism" were just caricatures that the right was using to paint all on the left with a broad brush, so I was pretty dismayed when, over time, I felt that a lot of this "race first" thinking had infested many areas of elite universities. Many university professors (ones who would not have in any way identified with being "on the right") who I deeply respect have spoken out about this, sometimes at great professional cost.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#809

Post by fzeroracer »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #675
glitchc wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concur, employee training and retention are at an all-time low. There are no positions available for junior employees, minimal onboarding and mentoring of new employees. Organizations have stopped planning people's careers. Used to be that the employee's career growth was their manager's problem, while the employee could focus on the work. Now the employee must market themselves as often, if not more often, than actu…

To get employers to invest in employees, they'd need more of a stake in it. Right now if you invest $200,000 to train someone, they can immediately quit and go work somewhere else and you're out $200k, so they don't do that. A way to fix that would be to e.g. issue student loans for the training and then forgive them over time if the employee continues working there. But that's rather disfavored by the tax code when…

> Right now if you invest $200,000 to train someone, they can immediately quit and go work somewhere else and you're out $200k, so they don't do that.

And...why are people immediately quitting to work somewhere else? Your idea of addressing the problem is by saddling employees with debt and forcing them into literal wage slavery rather than fixing the problem of companies not paying people enough to stay.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#810

Post by charlie0 »

korse wrote: post #710
NoTeslaThrow wrote: post #581

We never stopped manufacturing, we just stopped employing people. > We don’t have the infrastructure to manufacture That's trivially false given we're the second-largest manufacturer in the world. We just don't want to employ people, hence why we can't make an iphone or refine raw materials. The actual issue is that our business culture is antithetical to a healthy society. The idea of employing Americans is anti-bus…

I'm American and heavily involved in manufacturing for industrial/mining/agricultural customers. 'We just don't want to employ people' is a gross simplification. We do want to employ people, and lack of skilled labor is a serious problem which has hampered business growth for years, The first unspoken problem is that very few young people want to live where many factories are located. I can't blame them. I certainly…

Lol, $25hr. McDonald's entry-level wage is $20hr in CA. The $5 premium is not enough of an incentive to move to the middle of nowhere for a job.
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