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An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

theaiunderwriter.substack.com

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Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#801

Post by jerf »

feoren wrote: post #717
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You (and the article, etc) show what a lot of the "work" in AI is going into at the moment - creating guardrails against creating something that might get them in trouble, and / or customizing weights and prompts under water to generate stuff that isn't the obvious. I'm reminded of when Google's image generator came up and this customization bit them in the ass when they generated a black pope or asian vikings. AI to…

I remember all the hullaballoo about Asian Vikings and the like. It was so preposterous that Vikings would ever be Asian that it must be ultra-woke DEI mind-worms being forced onto AI! But of course, as far as the AI's concerned, it is even more preposterous that an Italian plumber would not be wearing red or green overalls with a mustache and a lettered baseball cap. I don't see any way you can get the AI to recogni…

The AIs were not "naturally" generating images of Asian Vikings. It was established to my satisfaction, even if the companies never admitted it (I don't recall it happening but I may have missed it), that it was actually the prompt being rather hamhandedly edited on the way to the image generator, for the clear purpose of "correcting" the opinions and attitudes of those issuing the prompts through social engineering.

Unsurprisingly, people don't like being so nakedly herded in their opinions. When the "nudges" become "shoves" people object.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#802

Post by vkou »

red75prime wrote: post #626
vkou wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a graphics design company was using human artists to do the same thing that OpenAI is, they'd be sued out of existence. But because a computer, and not a human does it, they get to launder their responsibility.

Doing what? Telling their artists to create what they want regardless of copyright and then filtering the output? For humans it doesn't make sense because we have generation and filtering in a single package.

In this case the output wasn't filtered. They are just producing images of Harrison Ford, and I don't think they are allowed to use his likeness in that way.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#803

Post by feoren »

GuB-42 wrote: post #756
feoren wrote: post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember all the hullaballoo about Asian Vikings and the like. It was so preposterous that Vikings would ever be Asian that it must be ultra-woke DEI mind-worms being forced onto AI! But of course, as far as the AI's concerned, it is even more preposterous that an Italian plumber would not be wearing red or green overalls with a mustache and a lettered baseball cap. I don't see any way you can get the AI to recogni…

That's what you get when you expect AIs to be like humans and be able to reason. We would be pissed if a human artist did that, so we are pissed when AIs do it. A human, even one whose only experience of an Italian plumber is Mario will be able to draw an Italian plumber who is not Mario. That's because he knows that Mario is just a video game character and doesn't even do much plumbing. He knows however how an actua…

> We would be pissed if a human artist did that

No, I would not be pissed if a human artist drew an Asian Viking. Do you get pissed when a human artist draws a white Jesus? Why are we justifying internet outrage over an Asian Viking when people have been drawing this middle-eastern Jew as white for centuries?

> A human artist can adjust things to the unrealistic setting, but unless presented with a really good reason, will not change the core traits of what makes a Viking a Viking.

If you asked Matt Stone and Trey Parker to draw a Viking, are you sure it would contain the "core traits of what makes a Viking a Viking?" What if you asked Picasso to draw a Viking? The Vikings in The Simpsons would be yellow, and nobody would complain. Would you be offended if you asked Hokusai to draw a Viking and it came out looking Asian? Vikings didn't even have those stupid horned helmets that everyone draws them with! Is their dumb, historically inaccurate horned helmet a core part of what makes a Viking a Viking? What the hell are we even talking about? It's crystal clear that all of these "historical accuracy" drums are only ever beaten when some white person is offended that non-white people exist. Otherwise, nobody gives a shit about historical accuracy. There's a fucking Kaiju in the image!

Like any artist, Gemini had a particular style. That style happened to be a multi-cultural one, and what we learned is that a multi-culture style is absolutely enraging to people unless it results in more Whiteness.

Consider elves instead of Vikings. People would also be offended if an AI drew elves as black people with pointy ears. There's no "a human artist should know that elves have to be white" bullshit defense there. There's no historical accuracy bullshit. There's only racism.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#804

Post by bluGill »

csallen wrote: post #794
bluGill wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even more surprising to me is how everyone seems concerned about the studios making enough money?! As if they should make any money at all. As if it is up to us to create a profitable game for them. Do you want more games (movies, books...)? Then you want studios to make money in that type of game. Because and if they make money they have incentive to do so. Now if you are happy with the number and quality of free…

Games: > "On platforms like Steam, indie games constitute the vast majority of new titles. For instance, in 2021, approximately 98% of the 11,700 games released on Steam were from indie developers. This trend has continued, with indie games accounting for 99% of releases on gaming platforms between 2018 and 2023." Written content: > "Every year, traditional publishers release around half a million to a million new bo…

You know what dominates though: the big budget games/books/videos. Indie is sometimes really good, but a lot of it is horrible.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#805

Post by feoren »

jerf wrote: post #801
feoren wrote: post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember all the hullaballoo about Asian Vikings and the like. It was so preposterous that Vikings would ever be Asian that it must be ultra-woke DEI mind-worms being forced onto AI! But of course, as far as the AI's concerned, it is even more preposterous that an Italian plumber would not be wearing red or green overalls with a mustache and a lettered baseball cap. I don't see any way you can get the AI to recogni…

The AIs were not "naturally" generating images of Asian Vikings. It was established to my satisfaction, even if the companies never admitted it (I don't recall it happening but I may have missed it), that it was actually the prompt being rather hamhandedly edited on the way to the image generator, for the clear purpose of "correcting" the opinions and attitudes of those issuing the prompts through social engineering.…

My point is that there is no prompt engineering that could keep Vikings white without also keeping Italian plumbers looking like Mario. Unless you singled out Mario, but there are too many examples to do that with. The AI does not put Mario in a different category than a Viking. You have to try to get the AI to avoid using exact literal imagery, to make sure it's mixing things up a bit, varying facial features and clothing styles when it shows people ... you know, being "diverse". How are we supposed to get an Italian plumber in anything other than red overalls without getting a Viking wearing a sari?

The Gemini prompt was something like "make sure any images of people show a diverse range of humans", or something. Yes, it was totally ham-handed, but that's not what people were pissed about. It's also ham-handed that we can't generate a nipple, or a swear word, or violence. Why does "make sure images do not contain excessive violence" not piss people off? The Vikings were fucking brutal. It would be very historically accurate to show them raping women and cutting people's limbs off. Are we all supposed to be pissed that AI does not generate that image? It's just as ham-handed as "make sure humans are diverse". No, it was not the ham-handedness that enraged people. It was not the historical inaccuracy. It was the word "diverse".

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#806

Post by famouswaffles »

runarberg wrote: post #120
coderenegade wrote: post #90

I don't see why this is an issue? The prompts imply obvious and well-known characters, and don't make it clear that they want an original answer. Most humans would probably give you similar answers if you didn't add an additional qualifier like "not Indiana Jones". The only difference is that a human can't exactly reproduce the likeness of a famous character without significant time and effort. The real issue here is…

Overfitting is generally a sign of a useless model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfitting

His point is that it's only overfitting if the model won't return new content when you clarify you're not just asking for the obvious answer from the context.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#807

Post by csallen »

bluGill wrote: post #804
csallen wrote: post #794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Games: > "On platforms like Steam, indie games constitute the vast majority of new titles. For instance, in 2021, approximately 98% of the 11,700 games released on Steam were from indie developers. This trend has continued, with indie games accounting for 99% of releases on gaming platforms between 2018 and 2023." Written content: > "Every year, traditional publishers release around half a million to a million new bo…

You know what dominates though: the big budget games/books/videos. Indie is sometimes really good, but a lot of it is horrible.

That's because the big budget creators are very good at business, which has four parts[1]: not just the product, but also the revenue model, the market, and distribution.

Big budget studios are AMAZING at distribution. They blow indie devs out of the water, who focus almost all their effort on just product.

Do big budget studios often make great games? Yes! But they often produce total garbage, too, just like indie devs. I think the biggest difference between them is distribution.

[1] https://www.indiehackers.com/post/how-to-brainstorm-great-bu...

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#808

Post by ars »

kazinator wrote: post #782
ars wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intellectual property does not belong to you. The entire concept of "owning" intellectual property is a very recent thing. So how about we go back to how it used to be and just remove this entire concept. You can own things you can't own an idea.

Your copyrighted work just has to be an original expression, not derived from someone else's work. It doesn't have to contain original ideas. Patents are for ideas. Patents do in fact expire far faster than copyrights in the USA. The main problem with patents is patent trolling in the area of software patents.

It would be a lot easier to defend copyright if it expired quicker.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#809

Post by ghostly_s »

ionwake wrote: post #534

Not sure if anyone is interested in this story, but I remember at the height of the PokemonGo craze I noticed there were no shirts for the different factions in the game, cant rememebr what they were called but something like Teamread or something. I setup an online shop to just to sell a red shirt with the word on it. The next day my whole shop was taken offline for potential copyright infringement. What I found sur…

Well the teams in Pokemon Go aren't quite as generic as Teamred: they are Team Instinct, Team Mystic, and Team Valor. Presumably Nintendo has trademarks on those phrases, and I’m sure all the big print on demand houses have an API for rights-holders to preemptively submit their trademarks for takedowns.

Nintendo is also famously protective of their IP: to give another anecdote, I just bought one of the emulator handhelds on Aliexpress that are all the rage these days, and while they don't advertise it they usually come preloaded with a buttload or ROMs. Mine did, including a number of Nintendo properties — but nary an Italian plumber to be found. The Nintendo fear runs deep.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#810

Post by contravariant »

sejje wrote: post #781
briandear wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ghibli isn’t a character, but a style. You can’t copyright it.

Yes, the only test will eventually be "Can you train AI on copyrighted works"

I consider this article quite strong proof that generative AI is closer to copying than it is to creating a new derivative work.
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