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How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

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Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#801

Post by kelseyfrog »

nine_k wrote: post #798
kelseyfrog wrote: post #794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who is doing the redefining? The people who are saying that excluding books from libraries isn't banning. It's straightforward. Discussing this reminds me of arguing with my narcissist father - he slips through conflict by redefining terms to fit his inability to take accountability and recognize that his actions have consequences. It really is a bad look to argue like this for a group of people who are trying to a…

This only affects school libraries. As long as the book is available in public libraries, and is legal to sell, buy, and possess, it's not banned. It's just considered inappropriate for minors. It's more like giving a movie an R rating than like banning.

I'm aware of that. Clarifying it only doubles down on digging the argument-by-definitions hole. I'm starting to get a sense that that's the only argument here.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#803

Post by spiderfarmer »

beepbopboopp wrote: post #800
spiderfarmer wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only the USA as a country compared themselves with countries that do better.

To be fair, can you name another democratic country that has gone 250 years without conflict?

Define conflict.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#804

Post by spiderfarmer »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #769
spiderfarmer wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free speech doesn't give you the right to a megaphone on every platform you see fit. It just protects you from government prosecution. As a moderator, I also ban people who are just obnoxious and loud without any substance. Right now, the government is suppressing free speech according to the very definition of that term. How can you not see the difference.

You can do that as a moderator, but you still violate the principle of freedom of speech in that case. The is the prejorative of any group to do so. I tend to prefer groups that understand the principle of free speech, but it isn't a hard requirement. Culture formerly forced large commercial internet platforms to adhere to freedom of speech and we have lost that partially. And people are rightfully not too amused abo…

You might want to look up what free speech actually means before engaging in discussions about it.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#806

Post by spiderfarmer »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #787
Conscat wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "free-speech does not mean freedom from consequences" This is a actually a slogan in support of free speech. Of course people are allowed to say transphobic things online or downtown, but that would surely make some of their coworkers uncomfortable and that's pretty disqualifying from most employment. You're allowed to say things, but colleagues are allowed to respond in kind within the law.

Not it is not and it is also contradicting the definition of freedom of speech, first sentence: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech "Consequences" are to be understood as sanctions or censorship, or does it mean something different to you? Then please elaborate. Doesn't make a popular XKCD wrong, but it makes some ideas rather stupid.

Again, the First Amendment protects individuals from government censorship, not actions taken by private entities.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#807

Post by mattnewton »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #297
nine_zeros wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, misinformation won. But when Trump actively cuts benefits, cuts jobs, cuts research, asks for bribes openly, quid pro quo everywhere, town halls unanswered - do voters in America feel willing to change their votes? Are voters willing to strike until the President resigns? Or are people ok with the country being sold to third world style corruption that is happening right in front of their faces?

One of Trump's major political strengths has been his consistent stance, in contradiction to the Republican mainstream, that Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid should not be cut. That's why he does so much better with lower income voters dependent on those programs than McCain or Romney could. I definitely think voters will turn on him if he changes his mind and cuts them anyway.

One of Trump’s major political facets is that he functions as a sort of rorschach test for supporters to read their own favorite issues and stances into even when they aren’t supported by what he has said. Immigration “he won’t deport the ones I like”, on abortion “he will ban it / he will not ban it”, on the economy “he will lower my taxes / lower the deficit”, and on entitlements “he will protect my social security check / he will curb social security spending by cutting fraud”.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#808

Post by [deleted] »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #806
raxxorraxor wrote: post #787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not it is not and it is also contradicting the definition of freedom of speech, first sentence: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech "Consequences" are to be understood as sanctions or censorship, or does it mean something different to you? Then please elaborate. Doesn't make a popular XKCD wrong, but it makes some ideas rather stupid.

Again, the First Amendment protects individuals from government censorship, not actions taken by private entities.

[deleted]

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#809

Post by fundad »

remarkEon wrote: post #654
nine_zeros wrote: post #46

I find it remarkable that Americans are ok with rule by executive order instead of rule by congressional law. I also find it fascinating that no federal judge has held any Trump administration officers in contempt or imposed sanctions/bans on officers who are continuously hurting constitutional rights. I assume that Americans have been sleeping at the wheel, unaware of the threat of slide into fascism. But is the vot…

Responding in good faith, here. As far as I can tell, what people who voted for Trump have a problem with - and are thus quite happy with as far as action from this Administration is concerned - is that while there are ostensibly only three branches of the Federal Government (the Executive, the Legislative, and the Judicial), there is in fact a fourth. This fourth branch is the administrative state, and it is (in the…

I agree on the interpretation on the resentment of MAGA, but I do think the administration is fascist and the president should be removed and sentenced for treason. To MAGA, saving lives abroad by spending a small portion of our budget looks like a scam, like lipstick on imperialism. It's complimentary to describe military as a force for freedom rather than overpaid security guards for oligarchy, but MAGA are in on that joke. MAGA doesn't see any war as "stupid", nor do they sincerely mind private email servers or inflation and obviously don't actually value economic growth. Attributing rationality will leave you confused, the only consistent value among MAGA is accelerationism.

https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/11/11/20882005/accele...

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#810

Post by facile3232 »

collingreen wrote: post #623
facile3232 wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without the right to say something, there is no legal way to organize or to demand any other right. Americans don't do this, though. They don't demand better. They accept shitty governance and say "at least I voted". And frankly I don't think they ever will. So I say, fuck it, let's just all accept that government is shitty and mostly exists to squeeze us for money. We can finally stop acting like it's representati…

Maybe some of us don't want to devolve into cutting off people's heads and asking questions later?

Perhaps if liberals read non-liberals they would have acquired an imagination in the last two hundred years. Obviously that's far from the only path forward outside of your sick fantasies.
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