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Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#801

US policy is now one of forcing the world into a zero sum game and it is a shame because the world isn't zero sum. This means the world will loose the gains from friendship and cooperation that increase the overall outcome for everyone. It is like living in a city where crime is expected so everyone puts up iron bars on their windows and the parks are all locked-down nightmares. When there is trust and cooperation yo…

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#802

If European leaders don't watch this and realise they need to take control of their own destiny they're idiots. Several European leaders visited this week bending the knee to try and stave off tariffs. Time to stand up, realise the US is no longer a reliable ally, and start building (on all fronts - military, manufacturing, tech, etc). Given the American people voted for this guy twice - the second time in spite of J…

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#804
post #492

Deeply embarrassing and disturbing. What a sad spectacle to see the President and Vice President of the United States so beholden to a foreign dictator that they would debase themselves in this way. Unpresidential doesn’t even begin to describe it. My heart breaks for Ukraine. The outcome of the November 5, 2024, election will prove to be a tragic mistake.

Shameful, embarrassing and disturbing is putting it lightly in my opinion.

The thing that is sad for me is I just feel like I don't have an iota of anything in common with people that could possibly support this kind of behavior. For so long I've been struggling to empathize with Trump supporters. I certainly understand the anger at the Democrats and Democratic leadership (I often share that anger myself). I understand the anger at the direction of the slow societal breakdown I've seen in many parts of the country (and which, ironically, I feel that Vance elucidated very well in Hillbilly Elegy). I understand many of the policy differences.

But it's what I see as the complete moral baselessness and behavior I can only describe as narcissistically bizarre that I just fundamentally can not understand. So often I hear myself saying "Imagine how any other politician would have reacted 20 years ago". And now it's like so many people are OK with stuff like this (never mind that insane Gaza video from just yesterday...)

I simply cannot understand it. And to be honest, I'm not sure I want to understand it, beyond seeing the whole Trump movement through the lens of something like a cult. I just have never been so ashamed of my country in my life.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#805

If European leaders don't watch this and realise they need to take control of their own destiny they're idiots. Several European leaders visited this week bending the knee to try and stave off tariffs. Time to stand up, realise the US is no longer a reliable ally, and start building (on all fronts - military, manufacturing, tech, etc). Given the American people voted for this guy twice - the second time in spite of J…

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#807

I saw a lot of people justifying Trump's moves because "the US shouldn't be spending so much money helping Ukraine in the war". I understand that argument, but what about security guarantees? Zelensky has been simply asking for security guarantees so that Putin doesn't start another war in a few years (like he did in 2014 and 2022). Why can't Trump provide that? Why should we just trust Putin's word? Or is there some…

Neither the US nor the EU want to directly fight Russia. A security guarantee is only credible if they are able and willing to fight Russia. That's why.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#809
post #345

On the one hand, I'm pretty sure Zelenskyy has had similar exchanges with Biden and the members of his administration in the past few years. And I understand (I think) the realities here: the US isn't doing anything out of the goodness of its heart; Putin's idiotic "short victorious war" blunder presented a nice opportunity to weaken Russia via a proxy war, no decisive military/materiel support was given, just enough…

That's difficult to do when Trump still thinks he's on reality tv.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#810

If European leaders don't watch this and realise they need to take control of their own destiny they're idiots. Several European leaders visited this week bending the knee to try and stave off tariffs. Time to stand up, realise the US is no longer a reliable ally, and start building (on all fronts - military, manufacturing, tech, etc). Given the American people voted for this guy twice - the second time in spite of J…

Personally most Trump supporters I know can only hope for a more Trumpian successor to Trump. Basically if JD Vance continues on his path he is looking like a sure thing for the Republican nomination obviously, but if any of Trump's tactics work he has a decent chance overall to ride that wave.
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