Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem with these privacy-first Firefox forks is none have the resources to match FF. If Firefox dies, eventually so will they, as the code stagnates relative to better-funded browsers. Saying "switch to a privacy-first fork" is not a long-term solution.
The internet doesn’t actually need any more new features anyway, and most sites reflect this and just serve HTML. Some sites will need new features. But I guess it is fine to have a data-collecting version of Firefox or even some moderately well behaved malware like Chrome, as long as most browsing doesn’t happen through it. So, I guess I’ll look at moving most of my browsing to a privacy respecting form and keeping…
Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
801–810 of 1001 posts
Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
#802Earlier quoted context omitted.
Firefox-the-browser isn't a service, it's a product. Their services are things like profile syncing. It makes sense to me that they wouldn't want content on their servers that they could get in legal trouble for hosting.
Comments such as yours are missing the point. Mozilla's ToS applies for Firefox's use, and this is literally written by Mozilla themselves: “Your use of Firefox must follow Mozilla’s Acceptable Use Policy” There's no distinction between the browser and Mozilla's online services here. --- And even if it were referring only to features such as “profile syncing” (and it doesn't refer only to that), does this mean that p…
> Mozilla software is made available to you under the terms of the Mozilla Public License 2, a free software license, which gives you the right to run the program for any purpose, to study how it works, to give copies to your friends and to modify it to meet your needs better. There is no separate End User License Agreement (EULA).
Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
#803Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's the surest way to kill it, and that is before taking their recent anti-privacy policies into consideration.
That feels like a witty thing to say without much basis in reality. If the EU got their act together and gave Firefox funding, it would be more of a pain in the neck for them to stop doing that than it would for them to threaten Mozilla over e.g. anti privacy policies. Even Germany, a single nation with a lot less difficulty in passing laws, hasn't used their Sovereign Tech Fund ( https://sovereign.tech ) in such a m…
1) The European Commission has proposed Chat Control, pressuring platforms like WhatsApp and Telegram to scan encrypted messages with AI, including client-side scanning, which critics say breaks encryption and enables mass surveillance.
2) The EU has adopted the eID (European Digital Identity), a centralized digital ID system via a “wallet” app, tied to biometric and personal data for service access.
3) The EU’s Data Retention Directive forced telecoms to store metadata until it was struck down in 2014; debates still persist.
4) The EU’s Digital Services Act mandates platforms share data with authorities to fight illegal content, raising profiling concerns.
5) The EU’s Data Act requires businesses to share data with governments, threatening personal info control.
6) The EU supports the UN Cybercrime Treaty, boosting global surveillance and data-sharing powers.
That’s just off the top of my head; I’m sure there are more examples of how the EU abuses its power and infringes on users’ privacy.
So yes, of all possible stewards for Firefox, the EU is maybe the third-worst, behind only China and Putin’s Russia.
Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
#8041. Have the capital to build and maintain a browser 2. By selling copies of that browser 3. In sufficient funds to keep the business going and make the owners a profit.
Let's say you can do it with a small team -- if you're forking something like firefox, and pay for the salary of 21 people -- full time, 8 developers, a PM, a manager, Customer support (3 people), 3 sales folks, and 3 testers, and one owner.
If the average salary is $175,000, and the fully loaded cost of each employee (including office space, equipment, benefits) is $250,000, then just to break even -- and not even account for inflation or costs rising -- and not even accounting for capital expenditures, the product would have to sell 105,000 copies at $50 a pop.
If you sold it for $30 a year, that's now 175,000 copies, every year. Realistically, to account for taxes and the fact that Developer salaries are no longer expensible (thanks Trump!), you'd have to sell around twice that number of copies, so around 350,000 copies of this browser, a year. Every year. Just to break even.
When's the last time 350,000 people said, "I want to buy a web browser?". When's the last time 350,000 people bought a web browser?
We've made our own bed in this one, the second folks saw that Internet Explorer was free; and that killed the original Mozilla browser -- that -- by the way -- I happily paid for.
If you want an internet where you're not the product, then that's an internet where the business models have to change, and the customer desire to pay for the software they use has to go up.
And that still -- still -- does not alleviate the problem of capital needing to get started, which is only exacerbated by the Section 174 changes in the TCJA of 2017.
Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
#805It's all so strange. I would happily buy Firefox, either as a one off, or as an annual license, and be done with all the weird license nonsense - presumably they want to sell data to pay the bills. But instead the choice, realistically, seems to be between giving all my browsing data to Google and to Mozilla. And Chrome works marginally better... :/
Firefox is open source. You can take the source code and strip out all of the malware, spying, telemetry and corporate harm leaving a safe and private browser (to the extent any modern browser can be). There are multiple forks that do that. Download one of them instead. Mozilla Corporation has no control over those, so if you don't like what Mozilla make, exercise your software freedom. The problem with Mozilla, as f…
Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
#806Earlier quoted context omitted.
People use it because it is essentially Chrome with uBlock-Origin built in (I think the developer of uBlock Origin is employed by Brave) and it removes the stupid cookie modals that are on every website. Between running a pi-hole and Brave, I rarely see an advert on a website. Turning off the "crypto-crap" can be done quite easily (you literally right click on the BAT icon and it is gone) and the new tab ads are remo…
> can be done quite easily The first and last time I tried Brave, it was injecting links (with a pretty golden picture) in each post of reddit (and I'm not talking about changing the referrals). To turn that off I had to look deep into the settings.
Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
#807Earlier quoted context omitted.
So why doesn't my backpack come with a mandatory TOS that I won't e.g. put illegal drugs in it and bring it across the border? Why is Firefox any more liable if I used it to publish illegal content on the web than the backpack manufacturer would be if I used it to smuggle illegal content across a border?
Because the legal system around backpacks are better understood. The more common something is the less legal paperwork there is. Judges understand backpacks and have for hundreds of years. Many judges don't understand technology. As a result when selling a backpack you can rely on the court's understanding and thus not have to account for every possibility. Meanwhile because the court might not understand technology…
Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
#808>UPDATE: We’ve seen a little confusion about the language regarding licenses, so we want to clear that up. We need a license to allow us to make some of the basic functionality of Firefox possible. Without it, we couldn’t use information typed into Firefox, for example. It does NOT give us ownership of your data or a right to use it for anything other than what is described in the Privacy Notice. From their blog post…
What basic functionality are they talking about? Do they list it anywhere? Or is "basic functionality" the new "security reasons" for justifying every stupid rule or policy.
Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
#809Earlier quoted context omitted.
“Californian”??...
Call it what you like, "San Francisco techy", ""woke"" if you like trendy pejoratives, whatever. I don't care what you want to call it but I won't play along if you intend to say that regional value system is actually uniformly embraced across this country, let alone across the same globe Firefox users are spread across. In the social sphere Mozilla resides in, voting for a socially conservative political party makes…
sigh, I feel bad for you... and us Californian techys... this us vs them toxicity is so demoralizing
Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox
#810> When you upload or input information through Firefox, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information, Taken literally it means that when I use Firefox to upload a file to a customer's web site Mozilla is getting that file too, which does not seem likely. They could get a copy of the text I'm typing right now in Firefox or it means that the browser could do some local pro…
I have seen discussions of this sort of wording so many times over the years. My understanding is as follows (and I could be wrong, but this is my understanding of why that wording is used). If you use Firefox to upload a file to a website then, legally speaking,the browser is acting as a "publisher"of that file. Because of Draconian laws in many countries, to publish a file you have to have a legal right to the file…