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'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

theguardian.com

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Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#801

Post by lucb1e »

crazygringo wrote: post #772
lucb1e wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know that. Based on what do they print a boarding pass, or perhaps rather: why don't they check {whatever the answer to the previous question is} at boarding instead of you having to hold onto a pass that apparently is a proxy for something else?

Speed. It takes time to look up a passenger on a computer. The plane will be delayed if they have to do that for everyone while boarding.

Hmm but what lookup does a human need to do? Identity documents have had chips for quite some years now so you just need to touch it to the reader and beep through, or for even older ones, they've had a machine-readable section since as long as I'm alive. A standardized government-issued passport is probably faster to read than a potentially dark and reflective phone screen or crinkled piece of paper, and equally fast in the case where the person presents a well-readable document. The gate doesn't even need to do any database lookup: it can locally store the list of the 200-odd names of passengers during boarding

I'm just speculating but if they can simply do a name+DOB-based lookup at a counter, it seems to me like the boarding pass thing might just be for historic reasons where people would feel weird if they are suddenly tracked based on personal details instead of a ticket

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#802

Post by joquarky »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #547
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is stupidity instead of hardship a legally valid claim? Are cognitively disabled people, unable to operate a smartphone, a protected class?

wcag has provisions regarding cognitive issues, I have been thinking about writing an article arguing that dark patterns being liable under accessibility laws - but have not really shopped it around. Of course one thing is nobody wants to sue someone because they don't understand something, because they think it means arguing they are stupid.

On a similar note, I think the inability to pause all animations on a website seems like a kind of WCAG violation as well.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#803

Post by Izkata »

joshdavham wrote: post #127

I’m fascinated by this phenomenon of apps proposing solutions that are far worse than the previous existing solutions. For example: 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. 2. Tinder is worse than IRL speed dating. 3. Duolingo is worse than language classes. 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. 5. Etc It really makes me frustrated as someone who builds software and generally thinks…

> 2. Tinder is worse than IRL speed dating.

I don't know about Tinder specifically, but from what I've heard apps seem to be where most people meet nowadays - you'll find normal people mixed in with the weirdos. Meanwhile real-life speed dating is where the really desperate people go and is mostly weirdos.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#804

Post by Marsymars »

kelnos wrote: post #737
Marsymars wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unless the app is exceptionally horrible you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is much more convenient than having to find a printer. You can just print at the airport at the check-in machines. I never even bother checking-in in advance of arriving at the airport. I theorize that they assign bad seats to early checkins to incentivize people to pay to choose a different seats. I have at various times…

> You can just print at the airport at the check-in machines. I have been to airports a non-trivial amount of times where there were lines even at the self-service kiosks. > I theorize that they assign bad seats to early checkins Oof, I would never fly an airline or buy a fare class that didn't let me choose a seat immediately, at time of booking. Anyway, this theory of yours needs some evidence... doesn't really pas…

> Oof, I would never fly an airline or buy a fare class that didn't let me choose a seat immediately, at time of booking.

I mean, that just seems like an expensive way to pay for seat selection.

e.g. Checking a route I fly frequently for an arbitrary date, it’s $232 (with seat selection in the $20 range) as the base fare rate, or $386 for the cheapest fare that includes seat selection. (With some other bonuses that don’t have any value to me, e.g. checked bags and a better cancellation policy.)

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#805

Post by ndriscoll »

steelframe wrote: post #666
ryandrake wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t people just print their boarding passes at home before they leave for the airport? Or worst case, use the kiosks at the airports which print passes? Very few of the passengers in line ahead of me are using their phones.

Printing a boarding pass at home works for the flight out. But what about the returning flight? Just last week I flew back home from SFO. I needed to change the flight at the last minute. The app failed to update with the new flight. The airline had removed all the boarding pass kiosks from that airport and only seemed to have luggage drop service. I asked an airport employee how I could get a boarding pass printed,…

Weird, I've flew out of SFO two weeks ago on United, and their online check-in never works for me so I just do it at the airport and get a paper boarding pass. I didn't run into any issues. Line was short (mid morning on a Thursday). They have a bunch of self-service kiosks to check-in and print passes.

It's never crossed my mind that an airline app exists and I would never consider installing one. If they don't want to provide self-service kiosks or a working website, I guess they'll have to have more demand for agents. Same with banks: there's no check deposits through their website, so I go in person when I need to do that. Installing an app is just not even on my radar to consider.

I'd also never rely on a gate number from my phone anyway knowing that it could be out of date. I'd have to verify with a departure board or sign at the gate anyway, so I'm just going to start there.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#806

Post by joquarky »

Henchman21 wrote: post #375
_Algernon_ wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies need to be held accountable for their negligent behaviour

How? What do you propose?

Substantial dilution of shares rather than monetary penalties.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#807

Post by dleink »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #547
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is stupidity instead of hardship a legally valid claim? Are cognitively disabled people, unable to operate a smartphone, a protected class?

wcag has provisions regarding cognitive issues, I have been thinking about writing an article arguing that dark patterns being liable under accessibility laws - but have not really shopped it around. Of course one thing is nobody wants to sue someone because they don't understand something, because they think it means arguing they are stupid.

If anyone needs a test case, I consider myself a reasonably intelligent human who is absolutely too stupid to use modern technology and would be glad to proclaim that to a court. (executive function, working memory issues. latency is a killer for me.)

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#808

Post by Kwpolska »

genewitch wrote: post #714
Kwpolska wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are those mythical actions that can't be done outside of a physical location? How many of them are things you do ~once in a lifetime, like getting a mortgage?

I need 100 rolls of quarters. I need 500 $2 bills. I need to change my pin on a debit card. I need to change all these $2 bills and quarters into $20 bills. Trivial examples that I have done at my bank. Maybe drbit cards now don't need to be put into a machine to change the pin anymore, idk.

The PIN thing can be done online at both of my banks.

As for the cash stuff, those are things you may need to do if you’re a shopkeeper, but I can’t imagine a reason why I would do that myself. Banks over here will sometimes charge fees for changing cash.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#809

Post by sobakeitso »

joshdavham wrote: post #127

I’m fascinated by this phenomenon of apps proposing solutions that are far worse than the previous existing solutions. For example: 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. 2. Tinder is worse than IRL speed dating. 3. Duolingo is worse than language classes. 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. 5. Etc It really makes me frustrated as someone who builds software and generally thinks…

Lots of issues with your claims.

1. Parking Kitty is much much easier than fussing with grafitti-ed, vandalized, unserviced parking machines.

2. Speak for yourself, Tinder is a great rebound app; vastly more productive than the limited pools at speed dating (which was big in like, 1998?)

3. True. But I don't have time for language classes. Anecdote but Duolingo brought my French language skills back to life, but probably because I already had them.

4. Do you travel much? Apps are far, far superior to any mechanism. Let's say your flight is cancelled due to weather. You can (a) call the 800 number and wait in a phone queue, (b) go to the desk and wait in a physical queue, which is challenging if you are in a country that is not your native language, or (c) log into the app to make changes instead of waiting for a person. Have you ever wanted to change your seat, or upgrade? You have the same three choices. Yeah, apps are hands-down light-years ahead of alternatives when you travel frequently.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#810

Post by sobakeitso »

TexanFeller wrote: post #782

It’s especially bad for elderly people. I have elderly family members with cancer and other serious issues who struggle because medical offices expect contact to be only in app messages and chats. When these patients call on the phone and say they need to talk to someone on the phone because they struggle with accessing other forms of communication they still often only reply back in the app/website. Some are elderly…

I went through this a year ago. My 95 year old dad was in rehab after major heart surgery and they wanted to communicate with him through a clunky android app. It was enraging. He could barely use the TV remote and they wanted him to navigate an app that kept crashing, forcing him to log in with a username and corporate-approved password. Absolute horror. I feel for you.
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