A thief got robbed?..
OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
801–810 of 1001 posts
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#802OpenAI is taking the position similar to that if you sell a cook book, people are not allowed to teach the recipes to their kids, or make better versions of them. That is absurd. Copyright law is designed to strike a balance between two issues. One the one hand, the creator’s personality that’s baked into the specific form of expression. And on the other hand, society’s interest in ideas being circulated, improved an…
I am not a lawyer (I'm UK based) You are a lawyer (probably local).
My understanding is that legal positions and arguments (within Common Law) need not be consistent across "cases" - they are considered in isolation with regards the body of law extant at the time.
I think that Sam can quite happily argue two differing points of view to two courts. Until a judgement is made, those arguments are simply arguments and not "binding" or even "influential elsewhere" or whatever the correct terms are.
I think he can legitimately argue both ways but may not have it both ways.
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#803OpenAI is taking the position similar to that if you sell a cook book, people are not allowed to teach the recipes to their kids, or make better versions of them. That is absurd. Copyright law is designed to strike a balance between two issues. One the one hand, the creator’s personality that’s baked into the specific form of expression. And on the other hand, society’s interest in ideas being circulated, improved an…
The stuff about copyright seems irrelevant. OpenAI's future investments -- billions -- were just threatened to be undercut by several orders of magnitude by a competitor. It's in their best interests to cast doubt on that competitor's achievements. If they can do so by implying that OpenAI are in fact the source of most of the DeepSeek's performance then all the better. It doesn't matter whether there's a compelling…
I’d take this argument more seriously if there weren’t billboards advocating hiring AI employees instead of human employees.
Sure, Open AI invested billions banking on the livelihood of every day people being replaced, or as Sam says, “A renegotiation of the social contract”
so as an engineer that is being targeted by meta and sales force under the “not hiring engineers plan” all o have to say to Open AI is “welcome to the social contract renegotiation table”
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#804OpenAI is taking the position similar to that if you sell a cook book, people are not allowed to teach the recipes to their kids, or make better versions of them. That is absurd. Copyright law is designed to strike a balance between two issues. One the one hand, the creator’s personality that’s baked into the specific form of expression. And on the other hand, society’s interest in ideas being circulated, improved an…
I am not a lawyer (I'm UK based) You are a lawyer (probably local). My understanding is that legal positions and arguments (within Common Law) need not be consistent across "cases" - they are considered in isolation with regards the body of law extant at the time. I think that Sam can quite happily argue two differing points of view to two courts. Until a judgement is made, those arguments are simply arguments and no…
> I think he can legitimately argue both ways
It would be very sensible that if a trial comes up, all these arguments that Sam Altman made for the other side score against him and OpenAI.
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#805Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is obviously extremely silly, because that's exactly how OpenAI got all of its training data IANAL, but It is worth noting here that DeepSeek has explicitly consented to a license that doesn't allow them to do this . That is a condition of using the Chat GPT and the OpenAI API. Even if the courts affirm that there's a fair use defence for AI training, DeepSeek may still be in the wrong here, not because of cop…
training is either fair use, or it isn't OpenAI can't have it both ways
They can sure try though, and I would be damned surprise if this wasn’t related to Sam’s event with trump last week.
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#806OpenAI is taking the position similar to that if you sell a cook book, people are not allowed to teach the recipes to their kids, or make better versions of them. That is absurd. Copyright law is designed to strike a balance between two issues. One the one hand, the creator’s personality that’s baked into the specific form of expression. And on the other hand, society’s interest in ideas being circulated, improved an…
The stuff about copyright seems irrelevant. OpenAI's future investments -- billions -- were just threatened to be undercut by several orders of magnitude by a competitor. It's in their best interests to cast doubt on that competitor's achievements. If they can do so by implying that OpenAI are in fact the source of most of the DeepSeek's performance then all the better. It doesn't matter whether there's a compelling…
Even if that narrative is true, they were still undercut by DeepSeek. Maybe DeepSeek couldn't have succeeded without o1, but then it should have been even easier for OpenAI to do what DeepSeek did, since they have better access to o1.
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#807Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can't copyright AI generated works. OpenAI are barking up the wrong tree.
They're not making a legal claim, they're trying to establish provenance over Deepseek in the public eye.
Is it predictable that they would seek to establish provenance, sure.
Is it our job as a thinking public to decry it? Also sure. In fact, wildly yes.
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#808Yeah? And if I say I have evidence OpenAI used my data to train a competitor to myself as a being that's capable of programming, will I get to have my own story on the Financial Times?
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#809Sorry, it's now a problem to train off other people's data? Surely openai has never trained off other people's data without permission...
Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor
#810Cry me a fucking river OpenAI, as if your business model isn't entirely based on this exact same thing.