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Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

bbc.com

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Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#801

Post by [deleted] »

Lewton wrote: post #701
DanHulton wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are sufficiently mentally ill and determined enough to die that you get through the MAID screening, counselling, information sessions, etc, then you are determined enough to die by other, messier, likely more painful, certainly more traumatizing to the people around you methods. As well, mental illness is not just a state of mind. Sure, there are stories where a failed suicide attempt was the catalyst for some…

> Where they can't afford the medication, or no medication seems to work, or they have an addiction problem and there just isn't any way for them to get into a treatment program I would consider two of these absolutely monstrous reasons to assist someone in killing themselves. A broken society opting into killing its citizens because it can’t be arsed with fixing itself is next level evil

[deleted]

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#802

Post by gspencley »

enaaem wrote: post #508
gspencley wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I share your view, but it gets crazy complicated when you're dealing with homicide (I'm using this word to mean it's literal definition: 'death caused by another person', not to mean a crime occurred necessarily). Euthanasia is controversial for a lot of reasons. Some people worry that authoritarians will use it as a way to "purge" or, such as here in Canada, as a way to "reneg" on health care obligations that tax pa…

We have euthanasia in the Netherlands for decades now and there haven't been any controversies as far as I know. It's a solved problem and the discussion here is over. I do agree that the laws and procedures have to be carefully constructed to prevent abuse, but it is possible.

I'm not here to tell you about your country, for which I know very little. But since I'm Canadian and euthanasia here is very new and very controversial, I decided to look up the framework in the Netherlands.

From the wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_the_Netherlands, this stood out to me:

> There is much discussion about people with early dementia who have previously stated in a written will that if they ever got dementia, they would want to get euthanasia.

This doesn't necessarily mean "controversy", but is very much an ongoing discussion and speaks to a problem that euthanasia introduces that has yet to be solved in the Netherlands.

And this really is the issue and complexity when it comes to euthanasia in general: we're talking about a form of legal homicide. So under what circumstances this should be permitted is a very valid legal question. Questions about consent, state of mind, paper trails and proof of consent are also very pressing questions and it sounds like no, not ALL of these questions are currently answered in the Dutch framework.

This is also not me arguing against euthanasia. I believe that adults have the right to commit suicide by any means of their choosing (assuming they're not infringing upon the rights of others in the process). The only thing I'm saying, really, is "it's a complicated issue with lots to consider."

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#803

Post by dghlsakjg »

nickff wrote: post #721
dghlsakjg wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just look at the end of the article. It gives several examples of the kind of thing that allows me as a utilitarian to say that the suffering of a few terminally ill is not as bad as the harassment of countless vulnerable people. Countless vulnerable people haven't been harassed. There are 12 documented cases in the history of MAID in Canada where someone was allegedly offered MAID innapropriately. There have been…

To be fair to the grandparent, you can’t fully audit whether the cases of the people who successfully petitioned, because they’re now dead.

You can petition for MAID, and get approval, and then choose not go through with it.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#804

Post by Neonlicht »

HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #778
Neonlicht wrote: post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it is. Most people are not rich to pay for their own care. Society doesn't want tax increases. We don't have enough healthcare workers. Reality doesn't care about how things should be.

Society != a small but influential wealthy minority Framing it as unchangeable "reality" is intellectually dishonest.

Run a political party on a "unlimited spending on healthcare" platform and see how far you get.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#805

Post by standardUser »

dyauspitr wrote: post #696
standardUser wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the hospital withheld IV hydration and provided a morphine drip and he was gone in 36 hours. I watched loved ones die this way. It's cruel, absurd and grotesque. A doctor will look you dead in the eye and say "your loved one will be dead within a few days" and instead of killing them mercifully you are forced to watch them die of dehydration. A maddening and indefensible relic that I believe younger generations…

I mean you’re on morphine the whole time, you’re not going to feel a thing.

If only drugs worked that way.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#806

Post by standardUser »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #649
standardUser wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the hospital withheld IV hydration and provided a morphine drip and he was gone in 36 hours. I watched loved ones die this way. It's cruel, absurd and grotesque. A doctor will look you dead in the eye and say "your loved one will be dead within a few days" and instead of killing them mercifully you are forced to watch them die of dehydration. A maddening and indefensible relic that I believe younger generations…

My BIL is a head hospice nurse. If it helps, they don’t ever deny people fluids who want or need them. What happens towards the end is the body stops being able to process fluids due to failing organs. Pushing fluids into someone in this state makes them less comfortable. People aren’t thirsty or suffering from a lack of fluids. As far as putting someone out of their misery, there’s a reason that they put them on hig…

I don't see drugging someone out of their gourd to be a plus in this situation.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#807

Post by dghlsakjg »

standardUser wrote: post #806
dghlsakjg wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My BIL is a head hospice nurse. If it helps, they don’t ever deny people fluids who want or need them. What happens towards the end is the body stops being able to process fluids due to failing organs. Pushing fluids into someone in this state makes them less comfortable. People aren’t thirsty or suffering from a lack of fluids. As far as putting someone out of their misery, there’s a reason that they put them on hig…

I don't see drugging someone out of their gourd to be a plus in this situation.

It’s still all based on consent.

Doctors are mandated to obtain informed consent, and patients have the right to refuse any treatment or medication they don’t want.

It appears that you may not be well-informed about end-of-life care protocols. Once a patient is admitted to ‘hospice care,’ the focus shifts from extending and preserving life to enhancing their quality of life.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#808

Post by BrandoElFollito »

neverartful wrote: post #758
Olreich wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s another dignified option when it reaches terminal?

Accepting suffering as part of the human condition. In the Christian faith, Christians are taught that suffering is part of life and good things can result from it. Like what? Empathy, love, and compassion from caregivers, friends, and family to the suffering person. Also, the suffering person may express love to those around them. Jesus allowed himself to be crucified and suffered one of the most horrible deaths ima…

Christians can suffer as much as they like. To everyone their weirdness.

Just don't push it to others under the name of morality out other bullshit.

I would like to be able to die when I want to, in a simple and painless way. Because I will do it anyway jumping under a train or lorry it is just messy for everyone.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#809

Post by enaaem »

gspencley wrote: post #802
enaaem wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have euthanasia in the Netherlands for decades now and there haven't been any controversies as far as I know. It's a solved problem and the discussion here is over. I do agree that the laws and procedures have to be carefully constructed to prevent abuse, but it is possible.

I'm not here to tell you about your country, for which I know very little. But since I'm Canadian and euthanasia here is very new and very controversial, I decided to look up the framework in the Netherlands. From the wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_the_Netherlands , this stood out to me: > There is much discussion about people with early dementia who have previously stated in a written…

We are at a stage where we are discussing edge cases of euthanasia and it's all related to widening the use; these discussions mostly happen among professionals. There is pretty much no discussion anymore on "vanilla" euthanasia among the general public. I agree it's complicated, but you don't have to solve every edge case with the first iteration.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#810

Post by neverartful »

neverartful wrote: post #758
Olreich wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s another dignified option when it reaches terminal?

Accepting suffering as part of the human condition. In the Christian faith, Christians are taught that suffering is part of life and good things can result from it. Like what? Empathy, love, and compassion from caregivers, friends, and family to the suffering person. Also, the suffering person may express love to those around them. Jesus allowed himself to be crucified and suffered one of the most horrible deaths ima…

I never said anything about imposing my beliefs on others. I merely responded to the question about whether there was any other course when things are terminal.
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