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Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

mcc-berlin.net

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Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#801

Post by pjmlp »

lispm wrote: post #759
pjmlp wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all, it is that bad in many areas, not everyone lives in Berlin.

There are a lot more cities with good public transport...

For the lucky ones living up to 30 km from city center they are supposed to commute, without having to ever change transport.

Just yesterday I hit jackpot, as my train got delayed 10 minutes delaying my connection to the following 30 minutes later train, as it turns out, the previous connecting train was delayed for 1h blocked at the station, so I got to jump into the 1h delayed train, instead of the one that would be coming in 30m later, which got to depart 5 minutes after I jumped into it.

The poor souls on that 1h delayed train weren't so happy as me.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#802

Post by nicbou »

cdrini wrote: post #561

The 49 euro ticket is a phenomenally good deal. Normal transit tickets vary per city, but for example in Berlin it's 3.50 per trip. So if you take transit twice a day for 7 days, you already recoup the cost of the Deutschland ticket, which lasts the entire month! This makes it good even for tourists who stay for ~a week. At 59, it's 9 days of two trips to recoup the cost -- still very worth it for someone living in G…

One thing worth considering is that the 49€ ticket also lets you travel outside of your usual transit zone. We took so many “Deutschland Ticket trips” to towns that wouldn’t be worth a full-priced ticket. We just board the train with lunch and a beer, have a little day trip, then be home in the evening.

Berlin was also relatively cheap before. We already had sensible monthly passes. For people in parts of the Ruhrgebiet, the savings are even more substantial.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#803

Post by retinaros »

RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #782
retinaros wrote: post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pickpockets an oddity? brother I took all the suburban trains you can think of, the paris subway on a regular basis ive seen people injecting their arms on the wagon, antisemitic attacks, stabbings, punching, people shit on the floor, drunks and pickpockets are a daily thing in paris in EVERY public transportation. some bus lines in non-touristic areas are even so infamous that everyday legions of comments tell stori…

First, please, be respectful. You are not my brother, nor my friend. Second, why are you blathering so much non sense. I have been taking the Paris metro daily for the past decade, commuting on the B, then the 6 first, then the 8 as I moved. I regularly go around including on some of the allegedly poor lines and cross Gare du Nord quite often. Stabbings never happen. An attack would be a newspaper worthy thing. Peopl…

everything I wrote I’ve seen it with my own eyes. saying brother to you is much more respectful than you calling me a russian troll. I am a second generation immigrant born in one of the worst suburb of Paris and everything I described I have seen it with my own eyes. also I don’t own a car. I just traveled and lived in many places (in US and asia) and can totally say the Paris subway is a horrible experience. people like you that have a strong political bias that make them bend the facts and reality are also the reason things won’t ever get better. Saying “pickpockets are only in touristy areas” just like if there was some magic line they wouldnt cross is the proof that you have gone away from facts and common sense. If I am telling you I know personally multiple bus lines being pickpocket-ridden where mostly parisian take the bus it is a fact and a reality. Your own experience of commuting might be different than mine good on you for enjoying it but maybe be tolerant enough to accept my own experience.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#804

Post by jjav »

geysersam wrote: post #721
jjav wrote: post #713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone who don't own a car have significantly less access to roads than someone who do. Most weeks I spend more hours cycling on these roads than driving.

Imagine how much less maintenance cost your biking causes than driving a car.

A lot less! So we (society) should be promoting cycling as much as feasible. Also bike parking, which is often forgotten. My town is very bike friendly in nearly every way, except there's no secure bike parking which limits which stores I can bike to.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#805

Post by jjav »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #763
jjav wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And crossing a 50ft+ wide intersection of a 40mph road (which means people drive 50mph) is daunting even for adults, and simply not advisable after the sun goes down. At least here (California) those intersections have stoplights and pedestrian crossings, so the width and moving speed of the road are not relevant. The cars will be stopped when you cross by walking. I don't remember exact age but certainly before ki…

> The cars will be stopped when you cross by walking. You live in a place with some combination of far more traffic enforcement or far more conscientious drivers than me. All I see when I look around is a sea of people glancing up and down between the road and their phone. It would be negligent to let my kids cross an arterial road, especially after dark.

Not sure about far more conscientious, but people do stop at red lights. Seeing someone run a red light is very rare, maybe once every 3-4 years. And even those aren't blatant, they are people trying to get through before the red but failing. So what I do (and teach the kids) is that when the pedestrian crossing goes green (or white, technically) then wait a second, look left & right, and if everyone is stopped, then cross. That eliminates the risk of someone trying to rush through in the last second, and at that point it is perfectly safe to cross.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#806

Post by jjav »

bluGill wrote: post #780
jjav wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars and roads only scale so much before you physically can't move more people fast enough even with more roads and more lanes. Rail scales way better. Before scaling people moving up so much, I'd question why encourage so much movement. Instead, let's encourage local areas which are walkable/cycleable that contain 95% of what people need. By eliminating the need for 95% of high-speed people moving (whether by car,…

95% is way too high a target! I sometimes want to get supplies at the special Asian food store - there won't be one in my 95% neighborhood - nearly everybody has enough of their own special hobby/interests that they cannot live 95% in their neighborhood. Note that I only counted for me - in the real world most people are in a marriage like relationship, each of the pair has their own interests and different jobs. Wha…

> nearly everybody has enough of their own special hobby/interests that they cannot live 95% in their neighborhood

Agreed. I did mistype what I was thinking though. Not 95% of destinations one might ever want, but my thought was 95% of trips. Nearly all my trips are routine, either to/from office (bikeable) or supermarkets (walkable), movies/library/restaurants/misc shops (all walkable), parks/sports (walkable), basic medical care (walkable).

I certainly have hobbies/needs I must to drive for, but those are fairly occasional trips. My thought is that if we as a society make it so that nearly all routine trips can be local (walk or bike) then the exception will be rare enough that we don't need more road capacity.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#807

Post by jjav »

CydeWeys wrote: post #794
jjav wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> set high enough that around 10% of spots everywhere in the city are free at any given time, so that people who need parking can generally find it conveniently nearby to where they're going OTOH, if there is always that much space available (and presumably there didn't used to be before the price hikes) then it is evidence that a lot of people have chosen to go elsewhere because parking became too expensive. Can the…

There's not that much free space available. It's a maximum of 10%. Almost everyone who was ever going to be able to go here is able to do so, they're just paying more for the privilege and they aren't wasting as much time driving around creating traffic trying to find parking.

Let's say there are 500 parking spots. With free parking and a vibrant area, all spots are taken and there are N people circling around looking for parking. Not sure what N is but let's say 50 (seems reasonable).

If after the price increase there are 10% (50) parking spots open, that means at least a 100 people went elsewhere (20%). That's a pretty significant drop in business to the local stores.

And speculation aside, I've seen this happen in two downtowns I frequented. Parking meters were installed, people went elsewhere, the vibrant downtown died and was boarded up and abandoned. And it's not just a transfer of business to a different location, but a loss of cultural significance. Because the old downtown had artists and musicians who no longer have a place at the strip mall. The stores moved, but the culture was lost.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#808

Post by RandomThoughts3 »

retinaros wrote: post #803
RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, please, be respectful. You are not my brother, nor my friend. Second, why are you blathering so much non sense. I have been taking the Paris metro daily for the past decade, commuting on the B, then the 6 first, then the 8 as I moved. I regularly go around including on some of the allegedly poor lines and cross Gare du Nord quite often. Stabbings never happen. An attack would be a newspaper worthy thing. Peopl…

everything I wrote I’ve seen it with my own eyes. saying brother to you is much more respectful than you calling me a russian troll. I am a second generation immigrant born in one of the worst suburb of Paris and everything I described I have seen it with my own eyes. also I don’t own a car. I just traveled and lived in many places (in US and asia) and can totally say the Paris subway is a horrible experience. people…

> strong political bias that make them bend the facts

I have a strong political bias because I feel the need to intervene when someone spread utter lies about stabbings in the Paris metro. Sure, I’m the one having issues here.

The issue is not accepting your experience. You are talking non sense about factual things.

Parisians mostly don’t take the bus by the way. The buses are awful and have been running like shit for the past two years as drivers are not being hired in preparation of the privatisation. Are you sure you actually know what you are talking about?

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#809

Post by eru »

rstuart4133 wrote: post #752
eru wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What social contract? That's a convenient fiction, but no one ever agreed to any social contract anywhere. My adopted home of Singapore goes a lot harder on private initiative than Thatcher and Reagan ever dreamed off. And thanks to that, and some other factors, they went from third world to first world (or arguably zeroth world) in less than a generation. > The core problem with free markets being used as a mechanis…

> What social contract? That's a convenient fiction, but no one ever agreed to any social contract anywhere. My adopted home of Singapore goes a lot harder on private initiative than Thatcher and Reagan ever dreamed off. Do you chew gum when you are at home in Singapore? No, you don't, because it's illegal. Did you agree to that, were even you given a choice? No, of course not. Singapore is more authoritarian than mo…

> Do you chew gum when you are at home in Singapore? No, you don't, because it's illegal. Did you agree to that, were even you given a choice? No, of course not.

It's more like a license than a contract.

> Singapore is more authoritarian than most liberal democracies.

The Singaporean government is a smaller part of life than in most other places. Much less red tape to fill out before you are allowed to do anything and regulations are simpler.

Yes, there are some weird regulations about how you can say things. But they affect the form more than the substance. You are pretty much allowed to say whatever you want, just not however you want it.

Yes, Singapore got lucky in that they had (and have) a hardworking population, and competent leadership.

Why do you insist that Singapore is authoritarian? We have free and fair elections, that are regularly observed to be so by international organisations.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#810

Post by eru »

shswkna wrote: post #719
eru wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What social contract? That's a convenient fiction, but no one ever agreed to any social contract anywhere. My adopted home of Singapore goes a lot harder on private initiative than Thatcher and Reagan ever dreamed off. And thanks to that, and some other factors, they went from third world to first world (or arguably zeroth world) in less than a generation. > The core problem with free markets being used as a mechanis…

Without trying to ridicule you, asking “what social contract?” In this kind of discussion is like a first year university student asking “what’s a fraction?” in first year maths classes. An entire section of philosophy is built on this question alone, and why there is such a thing as a social contract.

> An entire section of philosophy is built on this question alone, and why there is such a thing as a social contract.

The existence of the towering edifice of Catholic theology doesn't disprove Hinduism. (Nor does it prove Catholicism.)

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