Earlier quoted context omitted.
I meant immediately after your reply. At the time I posted, your and acco_'s replies to layer8 both showed as "3 hours" ago. Now they both show as "13 hours ago". Really, I'm being generous in assuming they didn't reply before you. Ed: ah, since the time I wrote this comment, your respective comments are now at 14 and 13 hours. Congrats on your <1hr lead.
By god, andrewflnr. Very "nice". /s. See point 4 below. You just showed that you are inaccurate, pompous and fake, all of that, in one single comment of yours, above. How? I'll tell you: 1. inaccurate: That commenter's username (the one who started this subthread) is _acco, not acco_ as you wrote above. Check that in their comment, or here: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=_acco I was careful to check the spellin…
Artificial intelligence is losing hype
801–810 of 814 posts
Re: Artificial intelligence is losing hype
#802Re: Artificial intelligence is losing hype
#803Earlier quoted context omitted.
Placing statements on separate lines does come off as somewhat aggressive. It may be subtle, but I got a similar impression.
Your comment is so hilarious that I need some time to analyse its implications and think of a suitable reply. Mañana.
Re: Artificial intelligence is losing hype
#804Earlier quoted context omitted.
GPUs are easily and irreparably broken by overheating, so GPU compute is something that's high maintenance. It won't stick around like a building or a bridge.
Luckily data centers have this thing called “air conditioning”…
Re: Artificial intelligence is losing hype
#805Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t think you’ve used LLMs enough. They are revolutionary, every day. As a coder I’m several times more productive than I was before, especially when trying to learn some new library or language.
They are revolutionary for use cases where hallucinated / wrong / unreliable output is easy and cheap to detect & fix, and where there's enough training data. That's why it fits programming so well - if you get bad code, you just throw it away, or modify it until it works. That's why it work for generic stock images too - if you get bad image, you modify the prompt, generate another one and see if it's better. But ma…
The healthcare system has always killed plenty of people because humans are notoriously unreliable, fallible, etc.
It is such a stubborn, critical, and well-known issue in healthcare I welcome AI to be deployed slowly and responsibly to see what happens because the situation hasn’t been significantly improved with everything else we’ve thrown at it.
Re: Artificial intelligence is losing hype
#806Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a person that has been futzing with "AI" since early expert systems, I can give a little bit of background on the evolution of the term of art 'artificial general intelligence' Back in the days of lisp machines and expert systems, we started playing with early neural networks in an attempt to advance towards 'general intelligence' rather than the highly constrained talents of expert systems. At that time, general…
Thank you for following up. I'll pedantically respond point by point, hopefully that will not make you bow out. > Back in the days of lisp machines and expert systems, we started playing with early neural networks in an attempt to advance towards 'general intelligence' rather than the highly constrained talents of expert systems. Interesting, you must be the first person I "meet" who was "back then and there". Still,…
It’s possible that others imagined human level as the base for “generalized intelligence”, but my colleagues and I were taking the term general to mean generalised, as in not narrowly defined (like expert systems are). A type of intelligence that could be applied broadly to different categories of problems, including ones not foreseen by the designer of the system. That these problems might be very basic ones was immaterial.
That this concept of general intelligence is not necessarily life transforming to possess on your smartphone doesn’t mean it isn’t a huge step forward. It is a very hard problem to solve. Transformer networks are the best tool we have for this task, and they work by inferring meaning to patterns and outputting a transform of that meaning. With LLMs, the pattern is the context text string, and the output is the next likely text fragment.
The surprising effectiveness of LLMs is due, I think, not to any characteristic of their architecture that makes them “intelligent”, but rather due to the fundamental nature of language itself, and especially the English language because of its penchant for specificity and its somewhat lower reliance on intonation to convey meaning than most languages. (I’m not a linguist, but I have discussed this with a few and it is interesting to hear their ideas on this)
Language itself captures meanings far beyond the words used in a statement. Only a tiny fraction of information is contained in words, the rest is inferred knowledge based on assumptions about shared experiences and understandings. Transformers tease out this context and imbed it through inferences constructed by billions of textual inputs. They capture the information shadows cast by the words, not just the words themselves.
This way of decoding cultural data, as an n-dimensional matrix of vast proportions rather than just the text of a culture itself, turns out to be a way to access both the explicit and the implicit knowledge imbedded in that culture, especially if that culture is codified using very specific and expressive tokens.
It turns out that this capture of shared experiences and understanding enables a great deal of abstract general problem solving, precisely the kind of problem solving that is vexingly difficult to solve using other methods.
LLMs, not just transformers, are actually a really big deal. In effect, they create a kind of probabilistic expert system where the field of expertise is a significant fraction of the sum total of human thought and experience.
But there are numerous and significant shortcomings to this approach, of course…. Not the least of which is the difficulty to effectively integrate new information or to selectively replace or update existing data in the model. And hallucinations (which are not a malfunction , but rather completely normal operations) are a basically unsolvable problem, though they can be mitigated.
But anyway…
I think the real insight to be had here , or at least my personal takeaway is that we owe a great deal of what we think of as intelligence to our culture than to our individual intellectual prowess. As we solve the problems of general intelligence, we both construct marvellous machines and confront the suggestion that we aren’t nearly as clever as we thought we were.
As for “AGI” I will still call that a crossed threshold , but certainly not to the level that humans have solved “biological GI” with full inculturation.
If people want AGI to mean human level competence, I’m ok with that. It won’t be the first term of art to have drifted in meaning. I would personally choose a more descriptive term for that, but 3 letter terms are not all that expressive, and adding another letter or two just gets awkward, so I get it. And I think it’s a lost battle anyway, it’s mostly old cranks such as myself that are impressed with things that most animals manage easily to do.
As for the SOTA, I think there is huge room for improvement both in narrowing down competencies for specific tasks, and for expanding capabilities for applications that need human level abstraction and creativity. But I doubt that the next steps toward human level competency will be nearly as fruitful as the ones in the recent past, and I have serious doubts about the ability of current paths to lead to superhuman intelligence. Superhuman capabilities, yes, but there’s nothing new about that. Superhuman intelligence will require things which we don’t understand, by definition.
We have mastered flight, but I’m still waiting for my practical flying car.Meanwhile, we suffer on with our earthbound wheels and idiot-savant AI.
Re: Artificial intelligence is losing hype
#807Earlier quoted context omitted.
Luckily data centers have this thing called “air conditioning”…
Air conditioning is just heat displacement. It doesn't get rid of the heat, and if it gets hot enough it becomes physically impossible to remove enough heat to cool a building down, no matter how many air conditioners are installed.
Don’t put chips on top of each other and you’re fine.
Re: Artificial intelligence is losing hype
#808Earlier quoted context omitted.
>When you encounter a 1x engineer, you will be shocked at how slow and unproductive they are. Well, Of Course I Encountered Him. He's Me.
Can’t be you. Self awareness is not a feature of 1x engineers.
Re: Artificial intelligence is losing hype
#809Earlier quoted context omitted.
And if you don't see how the example with the human brain throws a wrench in your analogy, it would explain why you'd think it as nonsensical, as it's exactly of relevance. > We also know how they work, they are token predicters. That is all they are and all they can do Ah there it is, you've betrayed a deep lack of understanding in all relevant disciplines (neuroscience, cognition, information theory) required to ev…
I'm aware of the theories that LLM maximalists love to point to over and over that tries to make it seem like LLMs are more like human brains than they are. These theories are interesting in the context of actual minds but you far over extend their usefulness and application by trying to apply them to LLMs. We know as a hard fact that LLMs do not understand anything . They have no capacity to "understand". The consta…
A bit late to the party, but we most certainly do not even know what "understanding" means.