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Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

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Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#801

Post by Jensson »

Zambyte wrote: post #795
Jensson wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they can't learn then they don't have general intelligence, without learning there are many problems you wont be able to solve that average (or even very dumb) people can solve. Learning is a core part to general intelligence, as general intelligence implies you can learn about new problems so you can solve those. Take away that and you are no longer a general problem solver.

That's a really good point. I want to define what I think of intelligence as being so we are on the same page: it is the combination of knowledge and reason. An example of a system with high knowledge amd low reason is Wikipedia. An example of a system with high reason and low knowledge is a scientific calculator. A highly intelligent system exhibits aspects of both. A rule based expert intelligence system can be hig…

Yes, I think that makes sense, you can be intelligent without being generally intelligent. For some definitions the person with Alzheimer can be more intelligent than someone without, but the person without is more general intelligent thanks to ability to learn.

The classical example of a general intelligent task is to get the rules for a new game and then play it adequately, there are AI contests for that. That is easy for humans to do, games are enjoyed even by dumb people, but we have yet to make an AI that can play arbitrary games as well as even dumb humans.

Note that LLMs are more general than previous AI's thanks to in context learning, so we are making progress, but still far from as general as humans are.

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#802

Post by tsimionescu »

sebastiennight wrote: post #711
tsimionescu wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simplest answer, without adding any extraordinary capabilities to the AGI that veer into magical intelligence, is to have AI assistants that can seemlessly interact with technology the way a human assistant would. So, if you want to meet with someone, instead of opening you calendar app and looking for an opening, you'd ask your AGI assistant to talk to their AGI assistant and set up a 1h meeting soon. Or, instea…

The examples you're providing seem to have been thoroughly solved already. I'm at the European AI Conference for our startup tomorrow, and they use a platform that just booked me 3 meetings automatically with other people there based on our availability... It's not rocket science. And you don't even need those narrow tools. You could easily ask GPT-4o (or lesser versions) something along the lines of : > "you're goin…

GPT-4(o) lacks the ability to connect to any of the tools needed to achieve what I'm describing. Sure, it maybe could give instructions about how this could be done, but it can't actually do it. It can't send an email to your email account, and it can't check your incoming emails to see if any arrived asking for a meeting. It can't then check your calendar, and propose another email, or book a time if the time is available. It doesn't know that you normally take your lunch at some time, so that even though the spot is free, you wouldn't want a meeting at that time. And even if you did take the considerable amount of effort to hook it up with all of these systems, it's failure rate is still far too high to rely on it for such a thing.

And getting it to actually buy stuff like plane tickets on your behalf would be entirely crazy.

Sure, it can be made to do some parts of this for very narrowly defined scenarios, like the specific platform of a single three day conference. But it's nowhere near good enough for dealing with the general case of the messy general world.

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#803

Post by lewhoo »

sebastiennight wrote: post #738
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I’m with you on this. Next token prediction does lead to impressive emergent phenomena. But what makes people people is an internal drive to attend to our needs, and an LLM exists without that. A real AGI should be something you can drop in to a humanoid robot and it would basically live as an individual, learning from every moment and every day, growing and changing with time. LLMs can’t even count the number of…

You seem generally intelligent. Can you tell how many letters are in the following sentence? "هذا دليل سريع على أنه حتى البشر الأذكياء لا يمكنهم قراءة ”الرموز“ أو ”الحروف“ من لغة لم يتعلموها."

Is this even a fair comparison ? Are we asking a LLM to count letters in an alphabet it never saw ?

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#804

Post by tsimionescu »

duped wrote: post #737
tsimionescu wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simplest answer, without adding any extraordinary capabilities to the AGI that veer into magical intelligence, is to have AI assistants that can seemlessly interact with technology the way a human assistant would. So, if you want to meet with someone, instead of opening you calendar app and looking for an opening, you'd ask your AGI assistant to talk to their AGI assistant and set up a 1h meeting soon. Or, instea…

> The single biggest problem in education is that it's impossible to scale the highest quality education Do you work in education? Because I don't think many who do would agree with this take. Where I live, the single biggest problem in education is that we can't scale staffing without increasing property taxes, and people don't want to pay higher property taxes. And no, AGI does not fix this problem, because you nee…

Having individual tutors for each child is not often discussed because it is self-evidently impossible for any cost whatsoever - it would require far too high a percentage of the workforce of a country to be dedicated to education. But it is the most responsible thing for the difference between the education the elites get, especially the elites of the past, and the general education.

Sure, this doesn't mean you could just fire all teachers and dissolve all schools. You still need people to physically be there and interact with the children in various ways. But if you could separate the actual teaching from the child care part, and if you could design individualized courses for each child with something approaching the skill of the best teachers in the whole world, you would get an inconceivably better educational system for the entire population.

And I don't need to work in education for much of this. Like all others, I was intimately acquainted with the educational system (in my country) for 16 years of my life through direct experience, and much more since in increasingly less direct experience. I have very very good and very direct experience of the variance between teachers and the impact that has on how well students understand and interact with the material.

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#805

Post by tsimionescu »

JohnFen wrote: post #794
tsimionescu wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simplest answer, without adding any extraordinary capabilities to the AGI that veer into magical intelligence, is to have AI assistants that can seemlessly interact with technology the way a human assistant would. So, if you want to meet with someone, instead of opening you calendar app and looking for an opening, you'd ask your AGI assistant to talk to their AGI assistant and set up a 1h meeting soon. Or, instea…

> This would not require any special intelligence more advanced than a human's, but it does require a very general understanding of the human world that is miles beyond what LLMs can achieve today. Does it? I am quite certain those things are achievable right now without anything like AI in the sense being discussed here.

Show me one product that can offer me an AI assistant that can set up a meeting with you at a time that doesn't contradict any of our plans, given only my and your email address.

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#806

Post by sheeshkebab »

bsenftner wrote: post #590
sheeshkebab wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The next revolution is going to be when people realize what we have already Enlighten us

It is both subtle and obvious, yet many are missing this: if you want/need a deep subject matter expert in virtually any subject, write a narrative biography describing your expert using the same language that expert would use to describe themselves; this generates a context within the LLM carrying that subject matter expertise, and now significantly higher quality responses are generated. Duplicate this process for…

epic… and not a single of these “experts” likely can solve even a basic goat problem https://x.com/svpino/status/1790624957380342151

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#807

Post by truculent »

quantum_state wrote: post #605
truculent wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> truly understanding… when I explain something, I have understood it When you have that feeling of understanding, it is important to recognize that it is a feeling. We hope it’s correlated with some kind of ability to reason, but at the end of the day, you can have the ability to reason about things without realising it, and you can feel that you understand something and be wrong. It’s not clear to me why this feeli…

Would say understanding usually means ability to connect the dots and see the implications … not feeling.

Okay, what if I put it like this: there is understanding (ability to reason about things), and there is knowing that you understand something.

In people, these are correlated, but one does not necessitate the other.

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#808

Post by truculent »

lewhoo wrote: post #803
sebastiennight wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem generally intelligent. Can you tell how many letters are in the following sentence? "هذا دليل سريع على أنه حتى البشر الأذكياء لا يمكنهم قراءة ”الرموز“ أو ”الحروف“ من لغة لم يتعلموها."

Is this even a fair comparison ? Are we asking a LLM to count letters in an alphabet it never saw ?

Yes, it sees tokens. Asking it to count letters is a little bit like asking that of someone who never learned to read/write and only learned language through speech.

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#809

Post by treprinum »

sturza wrote: post #565
treprinum wrote: post #438

The usual fate of idealistic people who build something great only to be discarded by management in a power struggle. How often did this repeat?

the people you need for the revolution are not the same you need after the revolution.

It only works when idealistic people don't know what awaits them (hence the "middle management" layer in most companies).

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#810

Post by mewpmewp2 »

throwitaway222 wrote: post #227
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI or GPT usually doesn't repeat like that. Although it usually is easy to tell if something is GPT.

They probably avoid making it look like their writing is written with chatgpt.

I thought so, but they must've changed a lot then. In any case it's not like the type of message they wrote is something special, and it's just usual polite PR.
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