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Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

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Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#801

Post by SahAssar »

JohnMakin wrote: post #742
multicast wrote: post #501

We live in times were non-problems are turned into problems. Simple responses should be generated truthfully. Truth which is present in today's data. Most software engineers and CEOs are white and male, almost all US rappers are black and male, most childminder and nurses are female from all kinds of races. If you want the person to be of another race or sex, add it to the prompt. If you want a software engineer from…

I'm sure people with this take will be totally happy at the "historically accurate" pictures of Jesus then (he would not have been white and blue eyed)

I don't think most people care about Jesus's ethnicity, but it seems quite likely that without adjustment he would be rendered as quite white since a lot of imagery and art depict him as such. Or maybe the model would be smart enough to understand if the prompt was for a more historically accurate image or something like the archetype of Jesus.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#802

Post by magnoliakobus »

influx wrote: post #782
duxup wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very strange that this would leak into a product limitation to me. I played with Gemini for maybe 10 minutes and I could tell there was clearly some very strange ideas about DEI forced into the tool. It seemed there was a clear "hard coded" ratio of various racial / background required as far as the output it showed me. Or maybe more accurately it had to include specific backgrounds based on how people looked, a…

Ask James Damore what happens when you ask too many questions of the wrong ideology...

I've truly never worked a job in my life where I would not be fired for sending a message to all my coworkers about how a particular group of employees are less likely to be as proficient at their work as I am due to some immutable biological trait(s) they possess, whether it be construction/pipefitting or software engineering. It's bad for business, productivity, and incredibly socially maladaptive behavior, let alone how clearly it calls into question his ability to fairly assess the performance of female employees working under him.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#803

Post by pg_1234 »

yongjik wrote: post #797
multicast wrote: post #501

We live in times were non-problems are turned into problems. Simple responses should be generated truthfully. Truth which is present in today's data. Most software engineers and CEOs are white and male, almost all US rappers are black and male, most childminder and nurses are female from all kinds of races. If you want the person to be of another race or sex, add it to the prompt. If you want a software engineer from…

> Most software engineers and CEOs are white and male Fine, you walk up to Sundar Pichai, Satya Nadella, and Lisa Su and say those words. I'll watch.

Most

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#804

Post by Animats »

esoterica wrote: post #721
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the focus of Google's technology is identity rather than reality, it is inevitable that they will be surpassed. They're trailing 5 or so years behind Disney who also placed DEI over producing quality entertainment and their endless stream of flops reflects that. South Park even mocked them about that ("put a black chick in it and make her lame and gay"). Can't wait for Gemini and Google to flop as well since nob…

[flagged]

For background on the problems over there, see the new book "MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios" (2023). This is a business book, not a fanboy book. It's all about who did what for how much money. How the business was organized. The conflicts between New York and LA. The Marvel universe was driven by the merchandising operation. For a long time, the films were seen by top management as marketing for the toys. What will sell in action figures drove film casting decisions.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#805

Post by raindy_gordon »

Gabriel54 wrote: post #761

It is incredible to me how as humans we are capable of harnessing rationality and abstraction in science to the point that such technology has become possible (think from the perspective of someone 200 years ago, the development of physics & math -> electricity -> computers -> the internet -> LLMs) and yet we are still totally incapable of rationally dealing with our different backgrounds and experiences.

well usually the few able to actually build stuffs aren’t the one incapable of rationally dealing with different backgrounds and experiences.

Humanity is not homogeneous, we have very smart people and very stupid one.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#806

Post by _heimdall »

Biganon wrote: post #703
_heimdall wrote: post #224

We humans haven't even figured out how to discuss race, sex, or gender without it devolving into a tribal political fight. We shouldn't be surprised that algorithms we create and train on our own content will similarly be confused. Its the exact same reason we won't solve the alignment problem and have basically given up on it. We can't align humans with ourselves, we'll absolutely never define some magic ruleset tha…

> We humans Americans* The rest of the world is able to speak about those things

Are they? So excluding Americans, you think the rest of humanity would be able to have reasonable discussions on women's rights, gender issues in children, abortion, religion, etc?

And with regards to the second part of my comment, do you think that humans are generally aligned on these types of topics, or at a minimum what the solid line is that people should never cross?

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#807

Post by _heimdall »

sevagh wrote: post #461
_heimdall wrote: post #224

We humans haven't even figured out how to discuss race, sex, or gender without it devolving into a tribal political fight. We shouldn't be surprised that algorithms we create and train on our own content will similarly be confused. Its the exact same reason we won't solve the alignment problem and have basically given up on it. We can't align humans with ourselves, we'll absolutely never define some magic ruleset tha…

So, what's the tribal political consensus on how many Asian women were present in the German army in 1943? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39465250

Sorry I'm not quite sure what you were getting at there. I don't think anyone is arguing that the images are accurate or true to historical record. I'd love to see an example of that though, I don't know how anyone could try to say these examples of clearly broken images are historically right.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#809

Post by spixy »

pocket_cheese wrote: post #799
logicalmonster wrote: post #596

Personally speaking, this is a blaring neon warning sign of institutional rot within Google where shrieking concerns about DEI have surpassed a focus on quality results. Investors in Google (of which I am NOT one) should consider if this is the mark of a company on the upswing or downslide. If the focus of Google's technology is identity rather than reality, it is inevitable that they will be surpassed.

Investors in Google should consider Google's financial performance as part of their decision. 41% increase YOY in net income doesn't seem to align with the "go woke or go broke" investment strategy.

well Google is lucky it has a monopoly in ads, so there will be no "go broke" part

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#810

Post by pocket_cheese »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #796
pocket_cheese wrote: post #765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortune 500s are laughably insincere and hamfisted in how they do DEI. But these types of comments feel like schadenfreude towards the "woke moralist mind-virus" But lets be real here ... DEI is a good thing when done well. How are you going to talk to the customer when they are speaking a different cultural language. Even form a purely capitalist perspective, having a diverse workforce means you can target more mark…

Nobody's is against diversity when done right and fairly. But that's not what Disney or Google is doing. They're forcing their own warped version of diversity and you have no choice to refuse, but if you do speak up then you're racist. Blade was a black main character over 20 years ago and it was a hit. Beverly Hills Cop also had a black main character 40 years ago and was also a hit. The movie Hackers from 30 years…

Not trying to be combative - but you do have a choice to refuse. To me, it seems like they wanted to add diversity to account for bias and failed hilariously. It also sounds like this wasn't intended behavior and are probably going to rebalance it.

Now, should Google be mocked for their DEI? ABSOLUTELY. They are literally one of the least diverse places to work for. They publish a report and it transcends satire. It's so atrociously bad it's funny. Especially when you see a linkedin job post for working at google, and the thumbnail looks like a college marketing brochure with all walks of people represented.

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