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Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

cointelegraph.com

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Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#801

Post by LikesPwsh »

lucw wrote: post #712
cmcaleer wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A trade like this (partly) is what blew up 3AC. Borrowing has cost and if futures funding premium turns against you and your perceived arb, along with a further divergence against you, it’s game over. Funnily enough that GBTC gap basically closed today; it was a >30% discount when 3AC died. Very nice if you get paid to hedge! Not so nice when you’re paying 0.1% in hourly funding premium.

I'm not familiar with what happened at 3AC but it sounds like there was leverage involved. The arb opportunity i'm talking about is something that exists with all ETFs and keeps them in line with the underlying asset.

3AC was doing the same arb on GBTC (with an extended lock-in before redemption), but GBTC had no mechanism for selling BTC once their premium reversed.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#802

Post by notahacker »

npoc wrote: post #710
Wytwwww wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hardest money mankind has ever seen Except it's not really money is it? It's a speculative asset. > The difference is that they can never stop you custodying the bitcoin yourself. Except if you can no longer convert it to real money ($/€/etc.) it becomes effectively worthless or at least start trading at massive discount. Also the delusional/quasi-religious rhetoric is getting old. Can't you actually try to think o…

Let's not argue semantics. With bitcoin you don't need "real money", you can exchange it directly person to person. In any case other countries that embrace bitcoin will always exist. It sounds like you need to learn what money really is. Try and figure out why mankind chose shells and beads as money, then gold and then fiat. It will help you understand why it will choose bitcoin next.

Some of us figured out that mankind ceased to use shells and beads (and many other things much more fixed in supply than Bitcoin) aeons ago because few people were required to settle their debts or taxes in them, and therefore their future value was entirely dependent on volatile collector sentiment rather than a broad segment of society needing them. I wonder when Bitcoiners will catch up...

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#803

Post by drdrek »

npoc wrote: post #108
ESTheComposer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in HN are in a massive bubble; you see it with other topics too. It's nice to look here for some tech sentiment and interesting article sometimes, but for most cutting edge stuff this forum is always full of naysayers.

There's a fair amount of ill-placed arrogance. It seems that the majority on this board confidently and incorrectly believe that they know all there really is to know about bitcoin. Essentially that it's a scam that wastes energy. If you try to help them understand, you're generally attacked as if you are shill, and then they continue along in their ignorant bubble. It's a shame, but their attitude isn't conducive to…

Its so annoying that Non-WBA holder around here keep arguing with me. I try and explain to them why Walgreens Boots Alliance stock is the future of investing but they are kept in their non WBA bubble.

Good luck buying WBA stock at a higher price in the future!

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#804

Post by npoc »

qwytw wrote: post #763
npoc wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always convert bitcoin to fiat and vice versa. Other countries/currencies exist and regardless, we have decentralised exchanges like Bisq. > Look at what happened with Britain after 1918 when tried doing everything they could to stick with "hard" money and avoid devaluation/dropping the gold standard. Soft money wins in the short term. Hard money wins in the long term.

> Soft money wins in the short term. Hard money wins in the long term. What do you mean by that? Repeatedly saying the same thing multiple times doesn't make it any more accurate. The type of "hard" money you're talking about only work in mostly static economies with untrustworthy and ineffective governments, under other conditions it inhibits growth and causes all sort of economic instability and much deeper boom an…

Soft money is like a credit card that takes money from the population without them realising. You can use this money to produce a short term effort but you (or should I say, _they_) pay the consequences later. Just look at what has happened to most of the west over the last 50 years.

Hard money is fair money. Populations thrive when built on a fair foundations.

Does the stealth taking of my wealth and giving it to the bankers benefit or harm society?

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#805

Post by ivancho »

cornholio wrote: post #530
ivancho wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MtGox thieves evaded prosecution because no one was doing tracing back then. Chainalysis got started specifically to link all their activity and is now a giant graph connecting all the "pseudonymous" addresses. And the thieves laundered most of their stolen coin through exchanges, not chain transactions, strange how they didn't want that very strong privacy. There's none of that left on Bitcoin, it's been indexed, cl…

The state of bitcoin mixers was also very primitive back then, especially given this volume. Today, criminals can use things like the defunct ChipMixer, which distributes private keys funded in advance. So by definition there is nothing in the blockchain to follow, because the handover is done off chain. The fact that ChipMixer was busted in an international law enforcement operation should indicate to you the nature…

I disagree with pretty much every point here, wow. ChipMixer provided a little bit of disconnect, but there was a research paper a while back that ran something like 5 transfers through it and managed to identify their mixing transactions with 90% precision. Law enforcement is most likely constantly tracking those, similar to how the NSA runs some significant percentage of Tor entry/exit nodes. Second, recognize the enormous amount of trust required here - that the mixer will actually do proper randomization, that there will be a large number of participants, that they won't keep the logs, that they won't just up and leave with all the money. There's plenty of examples of somewhat established mixers that fail on some or all of these, and you're telling me that instead people will just send their money to be mixed by anyone that can setup a network connection and a bit of code?

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#806

Post by mlrtime »

qwytw wrote: post #756
npoc wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not it doesen't. Okay

Why would you expect anyone to waste time making any substantive arguments against silly claims like "Bitcoin is money"..

"Money is any item or verifiable record that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts, such as taxes, in a particular country or socio-economic context.[1][2][3] The primary functions which distinguish money are: medium of exchange, a unit of account, a store of value and sometimes, a standard of deferred payment."

I have purchased items and payed off loans using BTC. So have millions of other people. You calling it not money doesn't make it so. Sorry.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#807

Post by shagymoe »

mFixman wrote: post #731
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #218

Looks like these are the 11 tickers? Bitwise (BITB) ARK Invest/21Shares (ARKB) Invesco Galaxy Bitcoin ETF (BTCO) iShares Bitcoin Trust (IBIT) VanEck Bitcoin Trust (HODL) Franklin Bitcoin ETF (EZBC) Fidelity Wise Origin Bitcoin Trust (FBTC) WisdomTree Bitcoin Trust (BTCW) Valkyrie Bitcoin Fund (BRRR) Hashdex Bitcoin Futures ETF (DEFI) Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC)

What's the difference between those 11 tickers? Shouldn't all of them go up or down the price of bitcoin plus/minus a very small error rate?

Probably fees, but that's true of the many S&P 500 funds also.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#808

Post by anonu »

tempestn wrote: post #192
anonu wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are cash creates not in kind creates. So there is no escaping taxes. You will be paying capital gains just by holding spot Bitcoin ETFs Edit: after further research it appears that the cash create mechanism doesn't cause a tax event for shareholders as it does with mutual funds. See https://www.grayscale.com/blog/legal-topics/addressing-poten... We will have to see how every Bitcoin ETF is structured. YMMV depe…

I think the parent is talking about buying the ETF inside a tax sheltered account.

Ok. Not a terrible idea to be in high growth/high return assets in qualified accounts.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#809

Post by ben_w »

roenxi wrote: post #735
qwytw wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russian troops kept advancing Did they? The war is in a stalemate. Militarily this isn't that different than the proxy wars of the Cold War EXCEPT Russia has suffered more casualties by a magnitude or two than the USSR did in Afghanistan or the US in Vietnam. For the Russian regime this war is now 100% an existential threat. For the US from an entirely a real-politik point of view, if the end goal is to defeat Russ…

> For the Russian regime this war is now 100% an existential threat. For everyone this war is an existential threat. It is unusual for governments that come in after a revolution to be more stable than their predecessors and any successor to Putin will still have the worlds largest nuclear weapons stockpile. There is an outside chance of a literal replay of Germany WWI -> WWII if the Russians collapse. Not to mention…

> any successor to Putin will still have the worlds largest nuclear weapons stockpile

Possibly. Given how much of the rest of the Russian forces turned out to be paper tigers, I wouldn't be surprised if 80% of the missiles' flight computers are missing something flight critical and 80% of the warheads have unenriched (or even outright depleted) uranium instead of weapons grade uranium or plutonium, with the real stuff having been lost (or never made in the fist place) due to corruption, and the SLBMs… well, thinking of replaying history, the Kursk comes to mind.

And while I don't think much of the promises of western anti-ICBM defences, they're probably still at least a bit better than the Russian delivery mechanisms.

Certainly possible that we'll see a repeat of Germany WWI -> WWII when the Russians collapse, I think that fear was why the west tried to be supportive of Russia when the USSR collapsed.

> "this assumes USD hegemony is a distant memory. does bitcoin have the largest weapons cache and standing military in the history of humanity?" is just bunk.

Sure. "Largest weapons cache" is too vague anyway — anyone can tell that the number of longbows don't matter too much any more, but sometimes we get people surprised that battleships also don't matter any more.

(Also: I thought the largest standing army was China, anyway?)

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#810

Post by vasilipupkin »

TimJRobinson wrote: post #366
vasilipupkin wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that mean ? Most wealth is in the cloud, you don’t need Bitcoin for this. I don’t have any paper stock certificates.

And yet if you were to visit Iran and attempt to access that wealth you'd quickly discover how little of that wealth is actually yours. It's not just that it's in the cloud, it's the only form of wealth you can keep digitally AND only you have access and control over it. Maybe that's fine because you're a good citizen who follows the rules, but some people are born into places where they don't get the privilege of a…

But all this is circular logic. You can’t say something is valuable because it’s digital. Why is it wealth in the first place is the question. Wealth is something that represents concrete value.
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