Live data from Hacker News

The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

801–810 of 1001 posts

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#801

Coming from Europe and living in the US for the last couple of years, I'm shocked at how society here is clearly pro-israel. It is very clear that in the US the life of an israel citizen is valued way above the one of a palestinian. It is sad to lose that level of humanity. all of the discourse also conveniently ignores that Israel created a large-scale open-air prison in Gaza and removed any hope left for people liv…

For someone, who is coming from Europe it strange, that you did not notice a slow, but steady rise in right politics in Europe, but was very quick to notice the US bias.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#802

There are about 1.8 Billion Muslims on planet earth. There are about 15 Million Jews on the planet. There are about 120 Muslims for every Jewish person. In Israel there are about 7 million Jews. The anti Israel propaganda and blatant lies on social media is sickening. To someone who knows what's on the ground, reading countless 100% false posts from many (not all!) Muslims and Palestinian supporters is downright scar…

Why does how many Muslims there are have to do with anything? Israel is not at war with the Muslim community they are at war with a single country which is not even all Muslim. Seems like shaky rhetoric.

> Why does how many Muslims there are have to do with anything? Israel is not at war with the Muslim community they are at war with a single country which is not even all Muslim. Seems like shaky rhetoric.

But the muslim community is at war with Israel and the jews, given the rabid antisemitism in every corner of MENA and beyond, like in Indonesia and Pakistan. Antisemitism is the normal in all these places.

I guess it's also the new normal on US college campuses too.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#803
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an ocean of injustice in the world and this one issue causes more anger than many that are equally abhorrent.

It's one of very very few issues where America and most of the west have stood firmly in support of violence and oppression for decades, even on issues like settlements where the US formally acknowledges the illegality and takes no action. Of course people care primarily about the actions of their own democratically elected government, that's the whole point. There's no need to protest when people agree with their go…

> There's no need to protest when people agree with their government.

Yet there's large protests in countries that aren't allied with the US or Israel, when no such protests were forthcoming in other analogous scenarios. And there were scarce protests in the US against Saudi Arabia's campaign in Yemen despite US alliance.

I do agree that your thesis is a partial explanation, but it is far from a full explanation. There's two other things going on.

Among Western leftists and minority groups, Israel is a symbol. It's perceived as the last vestige of Western/White colonialism. A symbol of someone with white skin punching down on brown skinned people. It harkens back to the reason that your ancestor was forced (either literally or by material circumstance) into the US in the first place, and why you are living today under systemic racism. Defeating this placeholder is therefore an important milestone in restoring their sense of historical justice. Needless to say this is oversimplified given how many Israeli Jews are indigenous to I/P or were ethnically cleansed from the surrounding MENA area and forced into the I/P area, but people do legitimately hold that dichotomous oppressor/oppressed worldview.

Among Muslim countries, this is an ethnoreligious blood feud. Assad killing Muslims doesn't cause the same anger because it's within the same identity group. So it's a classic case of identity divisions leading to disparate anger. I'm massively oversimplifying here, there are many other factors, but it's part of what's behind the energy.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a long list of Israeli politicians and military officers who have declared their intent to massacre civilians: - Israeli Prime Minister (!!) Benjamin Netanyahu: "You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember." [1] - IDF spokesman Daniel Hagari: "we're focused on what causes maximum damage" [2] - Israeli defense Minister Yoav Gallant: "I have ordered a complete siege on…

[flagged]

Are both sides terrorist animals here if not then you know the answer.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#805
post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

Interestingly enough, Israel has a stranglehold on r/worldnews. You'd be hard pressed to find any news or content there that doesn't praise Israel in their slaughter of the Palestinians.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#806
post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their response should be to leave the occupied territories, which aren't theirs to begin with, and to recognize a Palestinian state. Israel has held millions of Palestinians under military occupation for more than half a century, and it's way past time that that ended.

Israel did leave Gaza though. Gaza elected Hamas, and they carried out this attack. So what should Israel do specifically in Gaza?

Gaza did not elect Hamas. Hamas got 43% of the vote (their opposition was notoriously corrupt) and then they fought a civil war against the Palestinian Authority to assume control of Gaza.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#807
post #772

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"How do you honestly support people who elected Hamas" Speaking against mass destruction of key societal institutions and infrastructure, mass murder and attrocities, and starvation of Gazans by Israel's government policy in its current military operation against Gaza, is not a high mental bar for giving "support". It's easy to support that. I don't have anything against Jews. But I can see that people in Gaza, being…

Israel has allowed civilian aid in, does "knocking" to reduce deaths from their bombing, supplied the water Palestine was using to begin with, etc. so when Hamas fighters have literally been robbing the civilians of the food aid, it rings a bit hollow.

It's weird that you want to ignore how we ended up with the current borders to begin with (let's just ignore the war that was started, then lost), ignore the peace deals they signed and reneged on, the intifadas, etc. in this analysis.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#808

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a long list of Israeli politicians and military officers who have declared their intent to massacre civilians: - Israeli Prime Minister (!!) Benjamin Netanyahu: "You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember." [1] - IDF spokesman Daniel Hagari: "we're focused on what causes maximum damage" [2] - Israeli defense Minister Yoav Gallant: "I have ordered a complete siege on…

[flagged]

The Hague exists because the civilized response to war crimes is not more war crimes.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#809
post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fundamental assumption of the analysis that there are two mutually exclusive groups, 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Palestine' is flawed. It is possible to simultaneously support the interests of Palestinian and Israeli civilians (and support a peaceful Israel within the 1967 boundaries), while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) and Hamas. I think it is cur…

Why does the scale matter? In the legal codes with which I am familiar mens rea matters. Murder is not just worse than manslaughter it is on a different level. Western criminal codes generally allow for no punishment, perhaps even no guilt, for a manslaughter. If Israel could remove Hamas without injuring any non-combatants I think they would. It makes a difference. Almost by definition suggesting that scale is a fac…

> If Israel could remove Hamas without injuring any non-combatants I think they would.

Surely you jest. How is this attack supposed to remove Hamas? It seems designed to strengthen Hamas, just as Israel has been supporting Hamas since their formation.

The existence of Hamas prevents a united Palestinian people while simultaneously giving Israel the excuse to reject a 2-state solution. If Hamas didn't exist, Israel would have to create a Hamas from scratch.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#810
post #795

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did in fact mention what Hamas did - when they said civilian deaths caused by Likud are an order of magnitude higher. Perhaps they think civilian deaths are intrinsically bad, and don’t feel the need to calculate that one beheading is worth 5 children dead for lack of medical care, or whatever the official rate is? Also, a reminder that Putin and Hamas were also democratically elected, and I don’t see why that h…

There have not been elections held in Gaza in 18 years and Putin’s elections are not considered free and fair - see the arrest of Navalny. Democratic processes are good because it holds those in power accountable for their actions and should not just be hand waved away as if it doesn’t matter. And no, what Hamas has done was not mentioned, all that was said was ‘the actions of Hamas’. What actions - did they hold a b…

If you don’t know what Hamas did you are totally out of your depth. Israel argues that Hamas are the elected leaders of Gaza and that’s why residents there are at fault. I completely agree that Hamas do not represent Palestinians and think Israel should also admit this.
Post reply on HN