Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education • Hacker News Board

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#801

Post by tomrod » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 10:31 AM UTC

iosystem wrote: post #694

xyzelement wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

// other aspects of homeschooling were just a fig leaf over a whole lot of religious indoctrination I was raised totally secular but I now understand that religion is about fundamentally aligning yourself to the highest aspirations ("what kind of man does G-d want me to be?") and even w/o actual faith, I am starting to think that's preferable to the current mode of "anything goes, you can be whatever you feel like an…

> I was raised totally secular How come your comment history says otherwise (Judaism). I'm perplexed that the new approach to selling religion is pretending to be raised secular and or have others perceive oneself to once be an atheist but then later found the truth in life. Religion was the worst, the worst thing for me to experience in life, and I wish everyone could've experienced similar to me. Since religious pe…

I think you answered your own question to a degree. As I was being raised in an extremely high cost religion, I remember converts were given a very special glow and respect. Oh, they may never be full members of the tribe nor expected to lead very often, but their stories were affirmations that our religion must be right to convince people to join.

Also, these converts were used in proselyting from the populations they came from.

I've noticed most atheists are by default "converts" in a sense, and the now-religious conversion parallels appear to have a few dimensions to it.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#802

Post by Angostura » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 10:34 AM UTC

jawns wrote: post #150

People talk about homeschooling as if it's one single concept, but it's actually a whole bunch of very dissimilar things. There are people who homeschool because they don't agree with the government's viewpoints, people who homeschool because the public school system has failed their kids, people who homeschool because it just happens to fit their lifestyle. Those are all very different motivations. Likewise, there a…

It is a single concept. Different people have different reasons to do it, and different aptitudes at managing it.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#803

Post by alistairSH » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 10:42 AM UTC

henry_bone wrote: post #678

pkulak wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anything goes, you can be whatever you feel like and there's no judgement of any of your actions Wow, what a terrible take. If anyone needs religion to live a moral life, I'm glad they have found it and hope they never lose it. I'm judged by my peers, my family, my community, and my country. But even if I wasn't, I would know what's right and what's wrong. Moreover, I guess it's good that amoral people can find eth…

No one needs religion to lead a moral life. That's not the argument. But without the transcendent, without a higher power, we have no grounding for our morality. Everything becomes subjective and "post-modern". Actions then become "justifiable" - if there is such a thing - by whatever criteria suits us: the greater good, the good of the nation, whatever. But essentially self-interest takes over completely. The more w…

Avoiding eternal damnation is kinda the definition of self interest.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#804

Post by ClumsyPilot » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 10:44 AM UTC

fellowniusmonk wrote: post #527

xyzelement wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

// other aspects of homeschooling were just a fig leaf over a whole lot of religious indoctrination I was raised totally secular but I now understand that religion is about fundamentally aligning yourself to the highest aspirations ("what kind of man does G-d want me to be?") and even w/o actual faith, I am starting to think that's preferable to the current mode of "anything goes, you can be whatever you feel like an…

As someone who was raised in religious communities, that "higher aspirations" is only the position "in principle" in reality working with people in the religious community was just scams and moral self justification of despicable behavior hidden behind soft language and terrible behavior. So much contention, so much gossip, so much backbiting behavior and hidden evils against children so that communities wouldn't "lo…

> hidden evils against children so that communities wouldn't "lose face"

> dealing with a degree of cowardice and dishonest duplicity they haven't experienced before

Grew up in a religious community, seen this first hand. Only public appearences matter.

The same person that chastises people for having sex without marriage could be a weekly visitor at the whore house.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#805

Post by tomrod » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 10:48 AM UTC

c0pium wrote: post #536

Teever wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the purpose of religion is to align yourself to the highest aspirations why do so many large religious organizations get caught up stuff like this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mormon-church-ensign-peak-whist...

I know this is bait, however Romans 3:23-24 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus

Aye, Paul felt this. But Jesus taught by their fruits shall ye know them. AFAICT, all Christians know the Jesus trumps Paul. Under such a calculus, the variance of Christians living their standards en masse is sufficient evidence of mission failure, not simply internal inconsistency.

As an example, consider how many religious organizations not only ban LGBT (despite teaching god made them as they are) but outright actively work to disenfranchise them (tolerance failure).

I believe it is reasonable that organizations should not be tolerated when they are corrupt subcommunities cancerously siphoning resources from the body of a community. Whether that organization is commercial, civic, or religious shouldn't affect the determination.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#806

Post by ninkendo » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 10:51 AM UTC

graemep wrote: post #782

ninkendo wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Underrated viewpoint. Public schools are the only option for most people. Most people don’t have the financial ability to spend their time teaching their kids when they’re already working as much as they can to make ends meet. Heck, for a huge segment of the population, public school is the only place where their kids can even get a decent meal. If every parent that does have the time to invest in their child’s futur…

SO you want parents to give their kids a worse education in the hope it will help other kids? As a father (and a single parent home educator) not bloody likely. Also, my kids would not have done as well at school - they would have been a lot more like the the other kids, so would not have improved all that much. Not in the US, but some things are the same here in the UK, and in Sri Lanka where we lived for much of my…

Yes, your argument shows my point very well, thank you.

(Consider that public schools might not be a “worse education” if resources weren’t funneled away by private schools and home schooling.)

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#807

Post by _dark_matter_ » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 10:52 AM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #687

_dark_matter_ wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, I've watched my nieces and nephews - now aged 5-13 - fail to learn to do math (any), write, read, even _say the alphabet_. We've called the school district, CPS, and the police. None are able to do anything. These children are being raised to live in poverty. So yes, I'm against home schooling because it leaves some kids worse off. We have to enforce standards, and until we do I will not comply.

Almost half the public school graduates in California can’t read - the world is complicated. Sweeping generalizations are usually wrong in interesting ways.

Like the one you just made? https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/mar/20/tommy-tube...

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#808

Post by _dark_matter_ » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 10:57 AM UTC

clarkmoody wrote: post #730

_dark_matter_ wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, I've watched my nieces and nephews - now aged 5-13 - fail to learn to do math (any), write, read, even _say the alphabet_. We've called the school district, CPS, and the police. None are able to do anything. These children are being raised to live in poverty. So yes, I'm against home schooling because it leaves some kids worse off. We have to enforce standards, and until we do I will not comply.

Then you should be against compulsory schooling because it leaves a huge number of children worse off and violates others' liberty at the same time.

I should be against compulsory schooling because:

- my niece, an 11 year old, told me she want to be a doctor, and I knew that would be impossible unless I get her out of that situation?

- I've watched the 9 year old be physically unable to write any letters _even when having a printed alphabet in front of her_, be unable to speak the alphabet, be unable to even sing it?

- the 14 year old is on the hook for watching these kids, and is stressed and hurting, but we can do nothing?

Your throwaway comments are not helpful to people in real, hurting situations.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#809

Post by tibbydudeza » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 10:58 AM UTC

We did it for our youngest - diagnosed on the spectrum and teen depression and a lack of suitable schools for her in our area.

We took her out of the schooling system and placed her with a tutor (former educator) gave kids like her classes at her home every day from 8 till 2.

Parents becoming teachers without an education background or simply shoving a kid in front of a laptop to do it "online" is simply not workable.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#810

Post by hxegon » Wed, Nov 01, 2023, 11:23 AM UTC

I think a good chunk of this feels like religious / conspiratorial indoctrination. But. A lot of kids in school genuinely wonder if they're going to die when they step on the bus everyday. I don't know how you couldn't see that as a parent.

There were 51 school shootings in 2022, nearly a weekly occurrence. Is this the rise of home schooling, or just a natural response to the complete apathy and failure of our institutions?