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Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

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Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#801

Post by lb1lf »

weird-eye-issue wrote: post #776
somenameforme wrote: post #774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the video [1] mentions, they were only improvising on things (including the controller) that would not pose a safety hazard if they failed. The critical components like the capsule were designed alongside NASA and others. People aren't just tossing safety to the wind, but trying to create a better balance. NASA does spend a extreme amount of money on compliance and safety - yet that doesn't prevent them from doi…

Why is the capsule considered the only critical safety component? If everything else fails wouldn't it just fall to the bottom of the ocean? Even if it can survive that depth that only sounds good on paper. Nobody could get to you.

The capsule itself is positively buoyant.

As long as it can jettison the ballast (and is not tangled up in something on the seabed, say, the Titanic), it will come to the surface.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#802

Post by eterm »

scns wrote: post #184
Strom wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Logitech has orders of magnitude more experience in manufacturing peripherals than Microsoft. That said, Logitech does make products in a wide price range and the low end isn't competitive with their own high end.

Logitech has a lot of experience, i give you that. My MX518 lasted over 10 years, many other owners reported the same. More recent products by them die often before five years of use. Perverse incentives, news at 11. Sorry for the snark.

The mx518 (and mx400 before it) were godlike but the newer stuff has been distinctly mediocre.

I had to return a mx master 3 after a year when the left click button wore out.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#803

Post by sfn42 »

heavyset_go wrote: post #725
truemotive wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really frustrated by anyone that poo-poos this specific issue. One shall absolutely fucking obsess, me for instance about the game controller they used. Look at this. https://i.imgur.com/FrdR7TP.png So the F710 Logitech gamepad was something I wouldn't even trust as a teenager to let me play emulated retro games accurately. It has a hardware switch to toggle between DirectInput (an ancient input technology within…

. Edit: The bit mentioned above is at 0:37 in this video: https://youtu.be/ClkytJa0ghc?t=37 - "we keep a couple of spares on board just in case", that's great but I'm wondering who in that sub knows how to pair an ancient Logitech gamepad and remap XInput like a kid playing Diablo. They don't, in the BBC Travel episode "Take Me to Titanic" about this team and their sub, they did a dive with customers and almost had t…

Fucking hell that's terrifying

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#804

Post by arethuza »

truemotive wrote: post #689
raphman wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems your comment is missing a part: There's only one list item - which is truncated: > 1. There had to be a certification process to use the controller, including risk analysis which would absolutely deny any attempt to

Fixed, thanks. I've had a lot of thoughts about this lately. Here's another fun fact: What's wrong with this picture taken while the submersible is out of operation? https://i.imgur.com/lBWlh3i.png Answer: Look underneath the floor. The Altec Lansing ACS33 PowerCube 2.1 speaker system. $35 used on eBay and again from early 2000s era. -> https://i.imgur.com/fVdQ9Pc.png Not safety critical, but so extremely indicative…

Please tell me that's a training simulator and not the real submersible???

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#805

Post by brutusborn »

xpe wrote: post #683
brutusborn wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I admit I didn’t put much effort into that comment. I meant ‘philosophically’ as opposed to legally. Fundamentally every risky decision is up to the individual. Even trusting the regulator is a decision (I don’t trust some regulators in my country because they have a bad record for competence, so I avoid/minimise using things that they regulate). Therefore the final ‘responsibility’ for your safety is always personal…

> Fundamentally every risky decision is up to the individual. Even trusting the regulator is a decision (...). Therefore the final ‘responsibility’ for your safety is always personal, unless you were forced on board, or lied to about the construction. It seems you are trying to say something along the lines of: A. In cases where an individual has the freedom to make decisions (i.e. not coerced or manipulated) B. The…

I think A and B convey it pretty well.

I'm not sure I understand your criticism. In this case, for (1) who else but the individuals decided to go on the expedition? Where is the lack of freedom? And what is the relevance of 2? Are you saying people are not responsible for their actions because they don't have perfect prediction power? Doesn't it follow that no-one is responsible for anything?

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#806

Post by afavour »

iancmceachern wrote: post #611
afavour wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What international safety standards apply to bicycles? Seems to me that if you’re way out in international waters it’s not too surprising that no one is going to step in to stop you doing something this stupid. There’s not much jurisdiction.

These are for the US, it's written in law: https://www.cpsc.gov/content/bicycle-requirements-business-g...

Those are for the US. They are not global.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#807

Post by gmerc »

vanviegen wrote: post #640
bboygravity wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There’s not enough resources to watch everything that everybody is doing all the time. Have you ever heard of the name "Edward Snowden"? What everybody is doing is already literally being watched all the time and it has been that way or at least decades and has gotten worse with technological evolution.

Indexing people's online activity (in order to search for specific kinds of activiy) is a far cry from watching everything everybody is doing, let alone acting on all that information.

Wait until LLMs meet that data

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#808

Post by empthought »

realjhol wrote: post #153
prova_modena wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunning-Kruger effect.

Did you know the Dunning-Kruger effect isn't real? https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/how-do-you-know/2020...

I’m not really convinced. If everyone is a little overconfident (in the sense that they think they’re above average) then the least competent are indeed the most mistaken about their relative competency. Which is (I think) what most people—at least ones not trying to use it as a debate tactic—understand Dunning-Kruger to be.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#809

Post by mackrevinack »

kwanbix wrote: post #726

Why would people pay 250k to go underwater in a sardine can to watch a wreckage from a tiny window is beyond my comprehension.

exactly my thoughts. i would imagine the quality of what you would see out the window wouldn't be much better then what you would see from a camera fed displayed on a screen. the only selling point is that you are seeing it in real time.

it would still be as good if you were sitting on the deck of a ship in front of a screen or a VR headset watching a live feed. it would be much better than being picked into a tube with 5 people and only 2 people being able to see anything at one time

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#810

Post by spacephysics »

major4x wrote: post #666

One shall not obsess with the game controller they use, I suppose, in their analysis, failing the controller wouldn't prevent the sub from resurfacing... It is symptomatic, however. The whole Silicon Valley is like that. You have the old guard, NASA, millions for fault analysis, rumors go the C code on some NASA rocket was certified at $1000 per line---human eyeballs reading it... All those start-ups and unicorns, th…

To further your point, I hope with venture capital funding being far more expensive due to interest rate rise, that these kinds of practices are held back a bit due to money being harder to come by.

Or because investor X wants real assurances that something like the current situation doesn’t occur.

I think a good example of a balanced company in this space, is SpaceX.

They’ve significantly reduced the cost of launching into space, have quite rapid development for their industry, yet they seem to take necessary precautions and safety measures when needed.

They aren’t afraid to test things and have them fail, and been able to not let bad PR (because some conflate successful testing with a successful launch) take them down as a company.

Maybe the “SpaceX” way to have done the sun dive would be to have a test where an automatic diver is used to send the sun down, or some first principles approach is done from the building phase. A Logitech gaming controller is surely a canary for other practices they’ve done

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