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Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

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Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#801

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the murder, I had to read scores of comments like this ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35456168 ) about the homeless, need for more law enforcement (although the US already incarcerates more of its population than any industrialized country) etc. I had to read scores of tech bros in the professional-managerial class whinge about the poor, about black lives matter and how this was due to "progressivism".…

What percentage are entrepreneurs and what percentage are people with mental health problems and or drug addiction?

More than you'd think. You're more likely to be murdered by someone you know than a stranger. iirc it's something like ~55% chance of someone you know, ~25% chance of a family member, ~45% chance of a stranger (which could be anything from drug deals gone bad to serial killers).

You can delve into the data but but the format isn't the same for every year so it might be some work to normalize: https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/more-fbi-services-an...

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#802
post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the murder, I had to read scores of comments like this ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35456168 ) about the homeless, need for more law enforcement (although the US already incarcerates more of its population than any industrialized country) etc. I had to read scores of tech bros in the professional-managerial class whinge about the poor, about black lives matter and how this was due to "progressivism".…

That doesn’t change the facts (some of which stated in the post you linked) about the well known problems with homeless in SF.

I don't think anyone is claiming it does. But what's your point, really? It sounds like a conversation that goes like this:

"Wow, Lee was likely killed by someone who knew him, another tech entrepreneur."

"Yeah, and San Francisco sure has a lot of problems with homeless people."

Huh? Discussions about SF's homeless problem are pretty irrelevant to the case at hand. And it's really showing of people's biases that, when we first heard of Lee's death, the evidence-free, go-to narrative was that he obviously was killed by a random mentally-ill homeless person.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#803
I haven’t been to SF in 10+ years, but I grew up in a (more) dangerous American city. I’m curious how much of the panic over public safety in the Bay Area is massively skewed by upper middle class immigrants (from safer suburban America, or from other countries) getting their first taste of American urban life. I don’t want to sound too dismissive, American cities are really dangerous and impoverished compared to what they should be, but is SF really that bad compared to comparable American cities?

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#804
post #22

As the news media and twitterverse peddled the whole "crime-ridden SF" angle, I felt myself getting drawn into the same topic and agreeing with numerous friends on how much the city has declined. This is a good reminder of how we gravitate towards powerful emotional narratives, which in the moment can feel absolutely true despite an utter lack of supporting facts on an individual murder case. I hope this brings some…

After the murder, I had to read scores of comments like this ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35456168 ) about the homeless, need for more law enforcement (although the US already incarcerates more of its population than any industrialized country) etc. I had to read scores of tech bros in the professional-managerial class whinge about the poor, about black lives matter and how this was due to "progressivism".…

I had my comment on my family's experience of not experiencing any crime in the bay area in 10+ years downvoted. I was also called a boiling frog.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35451394

Another reply - "I'll have you know, my ivory tower is devoid of any riffraff!"

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#805

This article contains stats that are pretty shocking and contrary to the overwhelming narrative coming out of the SF tech community. https://missionlocal.org/2023/04/bob-lee-killing-arrest-made... The murder rate in San Francisco is preposterously low.

SF is safer than many of its peers, but some people seem to really want to paint the city as a failure. "Rampant crime" is one obvious way to do that. Over time the narrative leaks into the broader consciousness. Chicago deals with the same. I feel pretty confident that some of this is astroturfing from people with political ideologies trying to score points on blue states, but it seems to be quite effective however…

People are conflating street homelessness with crime. Seeing homeless people in their neighborhood makes people feel guilty and uncomfortable, so they demand that the police remove them from public view.

Because there is no coherent strategy to deal with housing in North America, this will continue to get worse. For whatever reason, reactionary public opinion is fine spending inordinate sums of money on policing, but freaks out when it is directed toward public housing, which in the long term is a much cheaper solution.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#806
post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand why it can’t be both: SF is degenerating when it comes to random crime AND this murder wasn’t by some random thug. Always important to reflect on whether stances like "SF is degenerating" are based on a rational analysis of what is actually happening, versus a more emotional response to stories that might be more like the topic of this post, just with less visibility into the exact circumstances of…

I've seen SF degenerating with my very own eyes and smelled it with my very own nose. Yes, this particular case may or may not be (we don't have jury decision yet) part of this pattern. But no amount of "akshually, this carefully picked statistic clearly shows that the crime is much better than it was in 1980s!" is going to change how I felt when I went to SF and how my eyes watered from the urine stench when I tried…

How long have you lived here? What were the conditions when you arrived, versus what you see now? What areas do you frequent?

Have you ever made friends with a homeless person? Do you know anyone who has been homeless in the past?

In my ~20y in SF, I have seen the exact same issues and political divides repeat over and over. There are certainly issues which need to be addressed, but the constant insistence that there is some short-term degeneration constantly leads to the reimplementation of solutions that do not work, particularly homeless sweeps and policing of nonviolent property crime.

Real solutions take time, commitment, dedication, and engagement from and with the community, not just shouting at a handful of politicians. That isn’t gratifying enough for most people, who want to see some overnight transformation, which is what leads to homeless people being shifted around from block to block based on who most loudly demands that seeing the poor on a daily basis makes them unsafe.

Further, this strategy prolongs and ingrains people being stuck on the street. Having access to the resources that help people get off the street, heal from addiction, and not be so desperate as to engage in petty property crime for survival makes everyone safer, including the folks currently living on the street. Being able to establish semi-stable communities (“encampments”) where they can rely on each other to watch their property, often including medications, identifying paperwork, treasured possessions like family photo albums which keep them tethered to reality, is key to seeing them improve.

This is the strategy upon which navigation centers are built, and while not perfect, it works for a lot of people.

The, “tough on crime, I don’t want to see the homeless”, strategy which has continually failed for decades actually, counterintuitively to many people - esp newcomers’ - perception, makes us all less safe. If there has been a decline in SF since you’ve moved here, it is almost certainly because of these wasteful, costly, and dangerous approaches to public safety and health.

It doesn’t matter how many condo towers are built, SF is never going to be a gated community. If you want to live in a gated community, I suggest you move to one.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#807
My first travel to SF was in 2010 and last one in 2018. In the 2018 trip I wasn't comfortable walking in the market street to get back to my hotel in the evening (I was staying in Hyatt Regency). Maybe I got older and more fearful for my safety, but that is a personal experience I have with SF.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#808
post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current CEO of YCombinator regarding an article in Mission Local a few days ago: Mission Local seems to serve their local bureaucratic masters over the basic public safety needs of the people. [0] This is gaslighting. You should be ashamed. [1] In this case they are “independent” of a sort [2] In all fairness, he did retweet this article a couple hours ago. [0] https://twitter.com/garrytan/status/1644520924828540…

In all fairness, I’ll be impressed when he posts a retraction and apology.

I concur! He should apologize.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#809
post #20

Joe Eskenazi, the author of this piece, is a solid journalist who helps run the tiny donation-funded Mission Local. They've done incredible reporting on corruption in the SF city government and punch way above their weight in the stories they break. I have respect for how Joe refused to join in reporting this murder as evidence of a violent crime epidemic, while still reporting on homelessness and property crime.

I don’t know anything about Mission Local, but reading of the article prior to reading your comment left me with the impression that the author was really invested in this being a targeted killing. The first part of the article started strong, and then it felt like the author was grinding a political axe, though I’m sure it’s in response to other articles grinding different axes. It was a well-written article to be s…

Looks like the author had very good reason to think that this was a targeted killing, as in, if the suspect did it it was a targeted killing.

Jumping to the conclusion that some homeless guy or street thug did it, without any evidence, is also something that people with axes to grind do on a regular basis.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#810

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm personally not into incarcerating mass amounts of people, as it only centralizes a prison industrial complex. Rather, one glaring issue is dangerous drugs showing up on our streets & the conditions that lead to this usage. In the comment you linked to, I noted Kensington Ave in Philadelphia, where there are videos of many people on hard drugs stooped over. Many people, who would otherwise have happier lives are n…

> Many people, who would otherwise have happier lives are now dealing with addiction & living on the streets. I don't know about you but I don't know anyone who fell into drug use and homelessness who had happy lives. I think people who are homeless and or addicted to drugs are addicted to drugs because there lives are not good. If you improve economic and social conditions for people, drug abuse becomes less of a pr…

I suspect a lot of our problems are caused by high-functioning addicts who are unhappy/dysfunctional and use addictions of all kinds to compensate - and who also happen to hold positions of real power and influence.
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