801–810 of 921 posts
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Contrary to the other person, i find you, at least through this interaction, to be quite likeable.
Disagreeing with someone doesn't mean you dislike them.
With that said, I realize now that I over-interpreted the word "bizarro". I gave that quite some tone in my mind. I now realize there are a few wildly different tones you can give to that word.
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> you seriously can't understand the benefits of working together physically then you have a serious mental block. But we working together, just remotely. Could you explain please, for us with "serious mental block" why do you feel that you need to be near me physically to do any work?
There's over 600 comments on this thread and you came here to say that you're still missing a single argument for in-office work? I can't help you through your mental block, only you can and it's hard work for sure. Also not sure the nature of your question, no one on this thread said they need to be physically near you to do any work, certainly not me.
I just curious to hear your reasoning.
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No, we're really not. People still live together, people still go to school together, people still have interests out of work, people still go to bars and clubs. The office may have been a good place to make friends for some young people, but certainly not all. I was quite lonely in my early twenties. I had moved away from home and university and all the people I knew. It's quite normal. And nobody worked remotely.
>People still live together More and more people are staying with their parents because they can't afford to move out. >people still go to school together More and more people are doing online/remote learning. During the pandemic, all learning went remote and it ruined childrens' social skills. >people still have interests out of work Less and less of these out-of-work interests involve regular, face-to-face social i…
The Covid related ones are not dismantling the places young people meet, that was a public health emergency that will not continue forever.
If people are choosing not to meet in person now, that is also not dismantling the places people meet. That is a choice.
I know that the isolation of Covid has had a terrible effect on young people's mental health and I do not want to diminish that. But it isn't a dismantling of the places they could meet for the main part.
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This argument is an appeal to authority that I just can't buy. You don't have to be a stupid person to succumb to your own biases, you just have to be human, and plenty of executives make irrational decisions based on their subjective feelings.
Not like you are providing any cogent argument. Execs sure have their own biases but they do have a lot of data to make important decisions like RTO policy. If you disagree with them, maybe it says more about your ignorance, blind spots and biases?
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You are making the dangerous assumption that these people know what they are doing. Time and again, winners and losers emerge of this and many of the top level executives turns out to be dead wrong.
And you are making assumption that these people are all stupid. What is your arguement?
In my opinion and experience, coworker’s performance vary greatly in and of itself and we can hardly ever correctly measure a single person’s “productivity” in a non-faulty way. Many companies’ simply fall back on more-or-less subjective, textual analysis of their workers and base basically every decision on that.
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C'mon that's just bullshit. Once working, you spend 8h a day with a group of people. It's by far the easiest way to make friends since the needed repetition of making contact (a minimum requirement for friendship) is already solved by going to work together. Making friends as an adult is hard. Work is the easiest shortcut in establishing meaningful relationships with strangers. Edit: addressing some of the comments b…
> Once working, you spend 8h a day with a group of people. Until they, or you: - quit and move to another company in 2-3 years - move to another department in the company - get fired Then what?
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C'mon that's just bullshit. Once working, you spend 8h a day with a group of people. It's by far the easiest way to make friends since the needed repetition of making contact (a minimum requirement for friendship) is already solved by going to work together. Making friends as an adult is hard. Work is the easiest shortcut in establishing meaningful relationships with strangers. Edit: addressing some of the comments b…
We tend to make friends early in life at school or church, but those friendships are because there's a very wide pool of individuals in a single location. Literally everyone in a geographic area who is your age. That inherently tends to include people of similar economic status and cultural background. You have this huge group of people and can pick your preferred subset from them. Walking into a job, literally the o…
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C'mon that's just bullshit. Once working, you spend 8h a day with a group of people. It's by far the easiest way to make friends since the needed repetition of making contact (a minimum requirement for friendship) is already solved by going to work together. Making friends as an adult is hard. Work is the easiest shortcut in establishing meaningful relationships with strangers. Edit: addressing some of the comments b…
> Once working, you spend 8h a day with a group of people. Until they, or you: - quit and move to another company in 2-3 years - move to another department in the company - get fired Then what?
You can absolutely make friends at a company, you literally spend half of your awake time there. It is more time then what you spent with your school mates back then.
At my company we have the worst of both works with "hybrid office". Employees need to come to the office 3 days a week, each team picks one day for the entire team to be in-office, the employees can choose the other days. The team day is mostly consumed with in-person meetings with others on your team, so no individual work gets done that day. The other in-office days are either spent heads down with headphones tryin…
If a team were to adopt a common set of three days by consensus things might be better? Perhaps some teams have already done this?
Good luck with it
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Like you, I appreciated his comment. It was honest, and I have been there. We are in the shaking-out phase of this change. The bigger problem is management isn't across-the-board good at determining productivity in-person or remote. Good managers are rare, and staring over someone's shoulder to make sure the work is getting done correctly is harder in remote work. The systems to provide this checking and oversight ar…
> I've been at the other end of the spectrum where I don't get work done in the office. Open offices are what destroyed the experience of going to work. When I had a private office (the first 17 years of my career) I loved going to the office. I had all the silence and privacy to get work done, but at the same time I could step out of the office 2-3 times a day and hang out with the team, chitchat about work, project…
At one point in time there were talks of sharing the space. I told them I had other options. The talks died.
Don't only negotiate on salary.