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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#801

Post by franciscop »

noduerme wrote: post #793
jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

Generational divide here. I used to work at Cacao coffeehouse in west LA in the 90s. Only took cash. Also, basically made no money other than tips. I moved to NYC and waited tables where there was no pay whatsoever other than tips. That was around when standard tipping went from 15% to 20%. Having worked in the service industry, I usually tip 25-30%, per drink or per meal. But here's the relevant point: When I encoun…

Why do you expect as a customer to have anything to say about a worker getting paid? Do you follow your shoes manufacturing process making sure everyone in the chain is paid properly? I expect the employer to pay properly, otherwise for the employee to take their case to their union/court. This concept/way of thinking seems so strange as a non-American.

> My prediction is that by 2025 [...]

You do know that for the rest of the world, the CURRENT system of needing tips to make up the pay that the employer does not pay is seen as disreputable, part of the infamous scammy lawless American low-pay healthcare-less work landscape, right? Employers are supposed to pay livable wages, not let random customers make up for it.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#802

Post by courgette »

noduerme wrote: post #797
courgette wrote: post #785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for sanity. I do understand the specific of the US situation, I’ve leave there since the last decade. In a very touristy city to boot, so a large part of my social network rely on tips. But the lack of awareness from our US friends to understand that they are the exception, not the norm in that particular regard is a bit disconcerting.

Tipping is an evolved system. If you go to most countries outside the US, you are not expected to leave a tip. But if you do leave a tip, here is what you get: . You are the first person served, every time you walk in, no matter how crowded the bar is. . You are poured the extra liquor that a bartender is allowed to "spill" . When you bring your date to the restaurant next time, you are treated very well. It is true…

Where did you travel ?

I had the chance to move around a lot and my social alcoholism made my spend lot of time in seedy places where someone pour out booze.

In all those places, paying more money is just bad taste.

A way to get what you describe is ( in my personal experience )

- smile

- be young and / or attractive

- being visibly in distress

- being polite and patient in the face of another rude customer

- make some jokes, not in English but in the language people speak where you are

- have a dog / a kid

- show that you have some humors and are not an asshole.

With all due respect, paying more and displaying extra wealth is a good way to be classified in the easy to dupe category. In some language due to post WW2 wealth, some folks say “an American” like “do you think I’m American or what ?”

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#803

Post by tpxl »

NhanH wrote: post #584
gymbeaux wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw one of those “mind blown!” sorts of posts on Facebook the other day that I haven’t been able to really reconcile in my head because it both makes sense and doesn’t make sense. The gist was that if everybody is paying with credit cards, $50 will eventually whittle down to $0 because AmEx, et. Al. got $50 worth of fees after so many transactions (accountant pays grocer who pays dentist who pays hygienist who pays…

The $50 in fee is paid to the employee at AmEx (99%+ of it), then the last % is paid into dividends and such, which people will use to buy grocery etc. In that way, the loop closes and why the point doesn’t make sense.

The fees get distributed elsewhere geographically, and never make it back into the local economy. Sure, the money doesn't disappear, but the locals are worse off for it.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#805

Post by b112 »

pull_my_finger wrote: post #777
jandrewrogers wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context matters. The dynamics of the business are fundamentally different because many employees prefer tips to the alternative, and they have have many options where to work. Employees have a lot of leverage due to a chronic labor shortage. This dynamic has played out time and again in Seattle, where business owners tried to switch to a "no tipping" model with a 20% mandatory service charge but ultimately had to rel…

> tried to switch to a "no tipping" model with a 20% mandatory service charge Sounds like a false dichotomy. Why is the only other option still an imposed cost on the customer? Wouldn't it be nice if the bad servers just got fired like any other profession and the good servers got a bonus or something from the business owner? Maybe people shouldn't "aspire" to be cafe baristas and chain restaurant wait staff. There a…

There are plenty of students and elderly that could handle the job and also handle the minimum wage.

It is my understanding that in the US, you're not paid minimum wage. Waiters are paid mostly by tips.

Some may have no wage! Tips only.

Where I live, this is illegal, and I suspect in Europe too, and this is where the lack of understanding comes from.

Now, coffee shops? People behind counters are not waiters, so I am unsure of wage issues, in the US.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#806

Post by adastra22 »

noduerme wrote: post #797
courgette wrote: post #785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for sanity. I do understand the specific of the US situation, I’ve leave there since the last decade. In a very touristy city to boot, so a large part of my social network rely on tips. But the lack of awareness from our US friends to understand that they are the exception, not the norm in that particular regard is a bit disconcerting.

Tipping is an evolved system. If you go to most countries outside the US, you are not expected to leave a tip. But if you do leave a tip, here is what you get: . You are the first person served, every time you walk in, no matter how crowded the bar is. . You are poured the extra liquor that a bartender is allowed to "spill" . When you bring your date to the restaurant next time, you are treated very well. It is true…

You still get that in America if you tip more than others.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#807

Post by orev »

swaggyBoatswain wrote: post #526
yafbum wrote: post #449

There has been a deplorable profusion of dark patterns in restaurant checkout UIs, such as offering preselected tip amounts set along a 18-20-25% scale (standard used to be 15%), making it quite difficult to leave a custom tip, etc. Add to this various "surcharges" and other mandatory fees added for this or that (my favorite: mandatory "resort fees" for hotels - seriously why is that not just rolled into the price of…

100% this Some of these places will also auto add grauituity charges as well for larger parties, and auto select a tip so if you don't look at the bill you could be footing out as much as 40%. Super shady UI practices. I don't want to be guilt tripped in tipping for a baked item for instance, or a chipotle style served food restaurant.

Adding a tip for large parties has been a common practice for decades—long before the current trend of adding tips for everything.

Whether you agree with the idea of tips or not, that’s the system we have, and in that system large parties very often take up far more resources at a restaurant than smaller ones. They take more time to leave, they clog up the kitchen (as all dishes need to come out at the same time), they often occupy multiple servers at the same time (when a normal table takes only one), and very often don’t tip at a level anywhere close to the standard 15% (with so many people, everyone thinks they can get away with a low tip and others at the table will make up for it). Servers get charged taxes as if they received those tips, so getting shorted actually costs them money (paying taxes on money they didn’t receive).

This practice is different than dark patterns, as it’s actually addressing a real problem with the customers that’s been known be restaurants for a long time. It’s not the same thing as trying to trick or guilt people into tipping.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#808

Post by panda-giddiness »

xp84 wrote: post #485
kbos87 wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am really of two minds about this. On one hand, yes, the suggestion that I leave a tip and the amount suggested has ballooned to a ridiculous level in some businesses. On the other hand, I recognize that there are plenty of businesses that still don't offer a way to tip at all (Starbucks until very recently), and more importantly, that none of these employees make anywhere near a living wage. Having worked service…

> none of these employees make anywhere near a living wage > the misery of minimum wage coffee shop employees. i don't know, TONS of people make way less than baristas and other counter-service workers. Lots of the customers of those baristas make similar wages as they do. Why does the barista deserve that money more? The maids at a hotel make less than a Starbucks barista, and there's no way they get significant tip…

> Why does the barista deserve that money more?

I think you're conflating deserving that money more with deserving more money. Obviously the ideal solution would be to pay everyone better, but individuals are limited in their capacity to effect change. Eliminating tipping, absent a replacement, isn't fair either (except in the sense that all service workers would become equally poor).

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#809

Post by itwontbelik »

When I was a child, the set of rules were pretty common:

* Don't tip at counters

* Don't tip the owner of an establishment

* Tip on the quality of the service, not the quality of the food

* Very low tips should be utilized only in case of very bad service. (A penny tip sends a much bigger message than no tip)

* Round up to the nearest dollar for taxi drivers or Ubers, since they are almost all self-employed, and you don't tip bus drivers do you?

Also, I only tip in cash, and only by putting that cash directly in the hand of one of my servers. Otherwise the manager, who is not supposed to be tipped will likely take a cut.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#810

Post by adastra22 »

csomar wrote: post #276
jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

> and give customers an option to donate to a charity if they still wish to part with additional money. Please no. That's how it usually starts. It was with small change but now McDonalds harasses you every time you make an order to round up for some charity I never heard about. I'd donate to charities on my own. Needless to say I avoid these places like the plague.

> It was with small change but now McDonalds harasses you every time you make an order to round up for some charity I never heard about.

To be fair, the McDonalds charity is actually totally legit and really awesome and you should donate to it. It's one of the few exceptions to the general rule that these charity promotions are usually suspect tax laundering schemes.

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