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Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

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Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#801
post #650
post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TANSTAAFL. (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.) The downside of employee protections is that it makes companies more reluctant to hire. And also once hired, the salary to be offered is reduced to cover the estimated current value of the future employee protections. These are real downsides, particularly for young people who are trying to get a foot into the corporate ladder. I have even personally witnessed a…

> TANSTAAFL. (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.) Maybe not, but the world isn't zero-sum. Some things really do raise or lower the overall average. > I have even personally witnessed a situation where a company evaluated a legal change to increase employee protections, and decided to layoff almost everyone in a particular country before the new law took effect. (The company was Pictage, the country was Argen…

Yes, free lunches exist but to see them you have to measure in utiles rather than straight-up dollars.

At-will is a huge risk for the individual, since they're going from roughly 100 % employment to 0 % employment.

On the other hand, in a decently sized organisation (where employee protection is typically enforced), being stuck with a bad employee and asking them for meaningless work that bothers nobody else means paying for 100 % capacity and only getting, say, 94 % of it. Over a large number of employees, the organisation can be fairly confident of what this percentage will be. Much smaller risk.

In other words, the utility cost for the employer of employee protection is smaller than the utility cost of at-will for the individual.

(Homeowner's insurance is a similar type of situation. Makes no sense to the individual if you look at the dollar costs, but in terms of utiles it does actually work out for both parties in most cases. Another case is hedging major business expenses -- costs more, but you and the counterparty both lose fewer utiles from it.)

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#802

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still have a lot of respect for Musk as bold business exec. But my respect for him as a person dropped to near-zero when he promoted the baseless conspiracy theory about Paul Pelosi.

He didn’t. Look at context.

The context seems to be he replied to Hillary with a conspiracy theory source that previously claimed she was replaced by a body double after 9/11 and other crazy stuff. Not sure where that is making things better.

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#803

Pardon me, but isn't this the standard operating procedure for leveraged buyouts of "inefficient" businesses? Cut expenses to the bone, resulting in a higher profit margin on the same revenue, coast on that revenue while dismembering the business for anything valuable, and then load any transferable debt to the carcass and declare bankruptcy?

Yep, literally every company that ever buys another company look to streamline it. In every single case where they say 'no layoffs planned,' just means they are waiting until they actually own the company and do the research to decide when layoffs will be.

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#804
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I was referring to the HN title of this post: "Twitter to lay off 25% of workforce in first round of job cuts" I opened the article thinking this was a formal announcement. But it's nothing of the sort. It's just speculation at this stage. Hope that clears things up.

We've changed the title to what the article says now. I don't know whether WaPo changed their own title or the submitted title was editorializing (the latter is against the HN guidelines - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ).

Thank you ^_^

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#805
post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think those labor protection laws got made in the first place?

Passed by the California legislature and signed into law by the governor like all laws? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Labor_Code#History

Even when being honest with yourself, is this what you thought I meant?

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#806

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silicon Valley, New York, and arguably Texas have been the hubs of computing innovation as long as there has been a commercial computer industry. Other tech hubs have sprung up, but we're looking at forty years of unceasing domination here. Innovation hubs move when new industries arise.

That's a short time horizon. Innovation hubs have been in China, Middle East, Venice, London, etc. The printing innovation lasted around 300 years. Steam engine another 150 years. The industrial revolution less than 100. How long do you think computers will dominate major innovation? And if it does, will the innovation hub stay in SV ? What happens if biotech takes over? MRNA tech ? Driverless cars ? VTOL ? Rocketry…

Now you're moving the goalposts from decades to centuries, across which it is slightly absurd to pretend that 'innovation hubs' have anything to do with workers' rights. Changes in culture happen regardless of where the innovation is, and when you start talking about centuries it's pointless to try to measure the effect of worker protections on salaries. There are just too many variables over that amount of time. Pretending you can effectively isolate one is ridiculous.

Regardless: yes, all of these things are in SV today. If any of them proves to revolutionize society in our lifetime I think you'll find SV will retain its status.

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#807

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> Precedent is when there's case law backing something. No, you're thinking of a restricted version of the second definition from Merriam-Webster, while it was clearly the first definition that was meant. precedent. noun 1. an earlier occurrence of something similar 2. a : something done or said that may serve as an example or rule to authorize or justify a subsequent act of the same or an analogous kind a verdict th…

> Musk has precedent The "has" makes it seem like it was a legal statement. It probably should be been worded differently

See https://ludwig.guru/s/has+precedent for a plenty of examples of using "has precedent" in non-legal contexts.

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#808

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether it does or does not protect them, employees will pay for these protections in the form of lowered salary and fewer jobs available. Nothing comes for free.

That's absolutely true, but in practice most people would experience substantial hardship if they suddenly lost their job. I wouldn't, but being in a country with employee protections means the people around me are almost never placed in a desparate situation, and I am meaningfully safer because of that.

Since you'd get more pay without these protections, you can save the excess for a rainy day.

People should save for a rainy day, anyway. Why must the employer be their parents?

I don't buy the idea that people in a free country like the US somehow found the one and only job they could ever have.

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#809
post #481

I used to be a big Musk fan. But the longer it gets, the more i start to dislike him. He starts turning into a Mad King

I’m the opposite. Never was a Musk fan but now that I see him trying to reform twitter I’m very impressed he’s willing to take so much flak for such a direly needed goal.

Now I agree twitter is deeply flawed but there is no guarantee that a changed twitter will be better twitter. Especially I would say when it’s directed by someone who shows such little regard for law and responsibilities.

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#810

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employees often depend on prior employers as references and for social connections. It is rare that anyone would actually walk out without notice, as doing so would almost always hurt their careers even if that job was truly shitty (the old adage to “never burn bridges” does apply!). Employers do not experience this same effect. Even if lots of people get laid off from a company without notice, there will almost alwa…

> Employees often depend on prior employers as references Not really. I have not once been asked for references from previous companies.

That’s interesting. Are you in tech?
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