Despite all the really shady stuff that went on under his leadership, I think it's a fair statement to say that Russia/Soviet Union was a more prosperous, happier and more ethical state under his leadership than it is currently.
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Mikhail Gorbachev has died
801–810 of 971 posts
Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died
#802Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not to pick a fight, but I feel it's important then to note that it was not Reagan who "won" the Cold War. It was Gorbachev, who had the political courage (and idealism) to take the leap.
The people who "won" the cold war are those Eastern countries that had been occupied by Russia for 45 years and fought for their freedom in Prague, Budapest and especially in Gdańsk.
Such freedom, to get pillaged by western companies. We are now in massive debt, most public services are privatised and collapsing, the young can't afford rents, wages are constantly dropping relative to expenses.
It was the profit extractors that won the cold war.
Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died
#803Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not pro-Russian. But here in Europe we've had 25% of our savings and purchasing power destroyed almost overnight, for a conflict that really has nothing to do with us (CIS borders and nationalism after the USSR). Why can't we just be neutral? We didn't do this for Georgia's claim in Ossetia or Armenia's claim with Azerbaijan (both similar scenarios), or the Iraq-Iran war, etc.
Millions of Europeans in nations bordering Russia disagrees. This conflict is all about us. We'll take the economic troubles and the cold winters as they come. We can still see clearly that we're not freezing in a bomb shelter or trench, as the Ukranians are on our behalf. Take your neutrality and what-abouts and stuff them.
Ah yes let's keep funding them to throw their lives away for us in a war they can't win, that's certainly the more morally respectable position.
Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died
#804Earlier quoted context omitted.
But the dissolution of soviet union is not over yet. You can see this nowhere as clearly as in russias attack on Ukraine[0] where imperialistic russians that dream of restoring the glory and borders of soviet union[1] are waging their genocidal war. Meanwhile they are using hunger[2] and energy as their weapons against the rest of the world[3]. If the russians are not stopped in Ukraine, then there is no reason to be…
First of all, RIP Gorbachev. The Soviet Union ceased to exist in December 26, 1991 [0]. Russia is not the USSR, and it's almost impossible it will never be anything remotely close. Most of the former USSR industrial capabilities where either abandoned, razed or looted. Russia's modern industry (including military) depends heavily on European (now sanctioned and obtained via third countries) and Chinese imports. This…
Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died
#805The United States didn't do enough to help Russia transition to democracy in the 1990s. There was no "Marshall Plan" after the Cold War like there was after World War II. This was a huge mistake, and we see the consequences now, with Russia having turned back toward totalitarianism and imperialism. Sadly, it seems that Gorbachev's efforts were mostly for naught. But it was courageous at the time to open up the Soviet…
Your comment makes it sounds like you believe the U.S. had the power to decide whether or not Russia would turn into a kleptocracy or not. Maybe I'm misinterpreting you, but if I'm not, I'm skeptical. Marshall plan notwithstanding, I would give credit to the people and government of Japan for their post-war success: it could easily have gone another direction, and the U.S. couldn't have stopped that from happening. L…
>I would give credit to the people and government of Japan for their post-war success
Perhaps a bit of both. We can also give credit to both for it's decline/stagnation. It wasn't the Japanese people that wanted quotas for US made cars, semiconductor technology transfers to the US, economic policy that didn't fit em, etc
Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died
#806Earlier quoted context omitted.
For the West he was a hero, for the Russians he was a disaster https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/Russia/Death_rate/ . I don't blame Gorbachev for this. Just as in the case of Nikolai II Russian totalitarian state and lack of checks and balances washed out an inept person to rule the country.
The communist system is responsible for that, not Gorbachev. Centralized gov't controlled economies create corruption which results in ultimate economic collapse.
Those checks and balances weren't in Tzarist Russia either.
Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died
#807Earlier quoted context omitted.
It doesn't really make sense in that context. The Thirteen Colonies seceded from Great Britain, something not in dispute even in the UK. Great Britain sent troops into the United States to oppose the secession. But it's not referred to as "the War of British Aggression". The only sense that singling out "Northern Aggression" makes sense in is perpetuating the myth that the slaveowners were the real victims.
> It doesn't really make sense in that context. The Thirteen Colonies seceded from Great Britain, something not in dispute even in the UK. Great Britain sent troops into the United States to oppose the secession. But it's not referred to as "the War of British Aggression". You're making the mistake of assuming that every conflict must follow a strict naming convention when in reality it'd usually be called something…
Just because there isn't a strict naming convention doesn't mean there isn't a longstanding convention in English-speaking countries of giving wars boring names based on the participants or theatre, even when it's absolutely unambiguous that the other side was the belligerent. Picking a ludicrously overblown name like "Northern Aggression" for a failed secession makes no sense in that context, but plenty of sense in Lost Cause victimhood narrative.
Which is why it was a name popularised by 1950s segregationists, not the original secessionists who may have rejected the notion that it was a "rebellion" or "civil" war, but talked about wars of "Separation" or "War for Independence" instead.
Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died
#808Earlier quoted context omitted.
First of all, RIP Gorbachev. The Soviet Union ceased to exist in December 26, 1991 [0]. Russia is not the USSR, and it's almost impossible it will never be anything remotely close. Most of the former USSR industrial capabilities where either abandoned, razed or looted. Russia's modern industry (including military) depends heavily on European (now sanctioned and obtained via third countries) and Chinese imports. This…
> Russia is mostly burning the gigantic former USSR reserves until they dry out. And Ukraine is way bigger than Abkhazia, Ossetia or Transnistria so it has the largest burn rate since Afghanistan. As far as I've understood it, the burn rate is way, way higher than in Afghanistan. Soviet-Afghan War took ten years. I don't think we've seen this burn rate anywhere in the industrialized world since WW2.
Sorry, I forgot about WW2! I referred to Afghanistan since it was the last big War the soviets fought before their country fell.
Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died
#809Earlier quoted context omitted.
But the dissolution of soviet union is not over yet. You can see this nowhere as clearly as in russias attack on Ukraine[0] where imperialistic russians that dream of restoring the glory and borders of soviet union[1] are waging their genocidal war. Meanwhile they are using hunger[2] and energy as their weapons against the rest of the world[3]. If the russians are not stopped in Ukraine, then there is no reason to be…
From your link [1]. He [Putin] became briefly close to President George W Bush - who even claimed to have glimpsed Putin's soul - until the Iraq War drove them apart. In Iraq, Putin insisted that international law must be upheld - no invasion could be allowed without approval from the United Nations Security Council, and that approval was not forthcoming. This is also Putin and it is not singular. If you listen to hi…
I don’t think opposing someone else’s war is much of a credit to him, or evidence against the idea that he is motivated to Make Russia Great Again. It seems more like he wants International Law to bind others but not himself.
Re: Mikhail Gorbachev has died
#810Earlier quoted context omitted.
> he became increasingly frustrated over the years that this was not done. This may be true, but I think it's more likely that he doesn't care about it at all. He is an opportunist, and back then the best opportunity was to criticize the U.S. and Europe by insisting on international law. Today, he is saying Europe is a fascist Nazi oppressor.
Quoted post unavailable.
Sure, there are some, but calling it plenty while Putin's private paramilitary army is the Wagner Group is willfully disingenuous.