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EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

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Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#801

Post by tidenly »

trollied wrote: post #195
warning26 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every single app creator out there will now want their own "app store" and it's going to be a mess. This is such an oft-repeated argument, yet overlooks that Android already allows sideloading and alternative app stores. If everyone-creating-their-own-app-store hasn't happened on Android, why would iOS be different?

Counter argument: The millions of different game launchers on Windows. What a complete and utter mess.

And we would never have all the innovations in the market that Steam has brought to us if windows only allowed game installs through some Microsoft Games Market. Are you saying that would be preferable?

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#802

Post by tidenly »

reaperducer wrote: post #253
Karunamon wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full devils advocate here, but the argument I've always heard is that the play store is a lot less arbitrary and restrictive than the App Store, so there's less reason to want to go outside of it. Apple locks out so many useful kinds of software that there actually may be enough momentum for real alternate app stores to proliferate.

Apple locks out so many useful kinds of software For someone who doesn't have a personal Android phone, what useful software is out there that I can get on an iPhone? Related: What mass-market software is out there that isn't available on the iPhone? I don't mean *nix tools and niche game emulators. Things that would make many people actually care about alt stores?

The Pornhub app

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#803

Post by toyg »

philliphaydon wrote: post #732
toyg wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's self-defeatist. You mentioned IE downthread; IE is not the dominant browser anymore, and the reason for that is not just that MS stagnated, but that it was challenged vigorously by competitors that exploited new opportunities better. This is one such opportunity.

Firefox and Opera browsers could run Google apps just fine. Remember the days when Firefox and Opera got a cut down version of gmail, but if you changed the user agent on the browser to chrome it worked just fine. That’s how chrome became popular.

FF took ages to come to mobile. Opera actually became pretty popular in Asia, precisely because they exploited well the move to mobile, and was screwed only by stupid commercial manoeuvers.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#804

Post by depressedpanda »

dwaite wrote: post #736
capableweb wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is naive and assumes that there aren’t bigger, badder actors to deal with - Facebook, Google, and others can and will abuse their position. This will make the iPhone worse for everyone, especially if chrome manages a dominant position and developers can stop supporting safari. It will probably make my Mac worse, too. That's why we have regulation, which is quickly ("quick" in terms of legislation at least) com…

> If the only reason people use Safari today instead of another browser, is because they are forced to use Safari, even if there is a better one, isn't that kind of messed up in the first place? The vast majority of people generally don't think a browser is 'better' outside of the chrome - tab functions, bookmark syncing, password management, etc. IMHO when people complain about Safari, it is usually web developers w…

We complain about Safari because Apple has been able to allow the browser to languish due to the monopoly WebKit enjoyed on iOS.

Any web dev worth their salt don't want total Blink dominance. We do, however, want healthy competition because that will drive progress.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#805

Post by toyg »

Miraste wrote: post #187
toyg wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's self-defeatist. You mentioned IE downthread; IE is not the dominant browser anymore, and the reason for that is not just that MS stagnated, but that it was challenged vigorously by competitors that exploited new opportunities better. This is one such opportunity.

Chrome was better than IE, but it won out not because of technical capabilities but through Google's constant and ruthless exploitation of its web properties and operating systems. That already happens on iOS, and I'm sure a Google SVP reading this ruling just started a project to intensify it.

And by doing so, they painted a massive target on their back. On the EU list, they come just a step under Apple, don't worry.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#806

Post by Timwi »

ihuman wrote: post #647
markdown wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only button they provide is for accepting ads. To say no, they provide a link. That's a dark pattern.

The bottom one isn't a button?

It doesn't matter what you call it. It doesn't look like a button to the vast majority of non-techies. That makes it a dark pattern.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#808

Post by AltruisticGapHN »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #65
AltruisticGapHN wrote: post #45

I think there are good intentions behind it, but it also misses the mark by targeting big tech specifically. The good that could have come of it, is a sort of open sourcing of tech companies... but of course none of that is going to happen. Yet we have standards; like USB-C which are a good thing. Question is who should enforce creating more standards (to address eg the interoperability of the messaging apps cited in…

Unfortunately Apple, although creating technically excellent products[0] is a very bad player as far as the environment is concerned. In particular, they insistence on thinness and related design choices (gluing everything together) makes the shelf life of their products relatively short. This is wrong no matter how you look at it. I have no problem with paying premium, I have a problem with the fact that my MacBook…

> makes the shelf life of their products relatively short

I don't know if this really holds, when you look at the bigger picture.

As for me I've owned an iPad 3rd gen (the first "Retina" iPad) from late 2012 to late 2016.

Then I owned an iPad Air 2 from late 2016 to this day... and I've decided to wait to see if they redesign the base iPad model (not Air) late this year - and if not then upgrade to the new AIR.

So that's 2 iPads between late 2012 to late 2022. 10 YEARS.

Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Considering how fast tech and software is moving these days if you can get 4-5 years out of your tablet AS A TECH USER that's pretty darn good.

If it was my Grandma, she'd probably still get to use my iPad Air 2 for another few years...

I don't see how it's different for other Apple products. The MINI's from 2012 are still being sold at a decent price and are very much sought after - Apple users love to use them as media servers. The M1 Mini likely will have a LOOOONG life ahead of them. Mine will probably resell in a heart beat even couples years from now.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#809

Post by martin8412 »

stale2002 wrote: post #714
KerrAvon wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will not be a benefit to consumers. If I have a choice of an Android phone or an Android-like phone with an Apple logo on it, I don’t have a real choice.

Sure you do have a real choice. Simply only use the Apple app store and you will have the same phone you had before.

No, because apps will be moved to other stores with less strict guidelines on permissions. Meta will for sure do it. They mentioned Apple as a major reason for their poor financial performance, after Apple introduced further restrictions on what they can and can't do. They've also been caught red handed before, and had their enterprise developer account disabled for abusing it to do things they weren't allowed to on end user phones.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#810

Post by walterbell »

account42 wrote: post #790
walterbell wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Block all traffic to Apple at the router, except (e.g. use a different SSID) when you need to perform OS/app updates. Apple kindly publishes IP exception lists so you can still receive notifications, while blocking the rest of 17/8.

Maybe that will work in practice but you have no way of knowing if it does. There is nothing really preventing Apple from sneaking tracking data through the notification channel (not to mention that centralized notifications are already a juicy opportunity to profile and track users) or retaining the data and sending it off when you do OS updates. Once a company has shown willingness to go against your interest you c…

All true, but less bad than competitors Google and Microsoft, which do not offer comparable segmentation of notifications and telemetry.

Since notifications are user-visible, one can audit for unexpected, non-notification traffic to Apple's advertised notification-only IPs.

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