Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#801

Post by Eupraxias » Thu, May 05, 2022, 4:38 PM UTC

roland35 wrote: post #572

throwaway787544 wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the only source of the problem, but social media is certainly a big one. Back in the day you didn't get rape threats from 50 anonymous accounts, or see pictures of you photoshopped sucking dicks, or feel like even more of a loser because you see in 4K detail how everybody else in class is having more fun outside of school. The internet is a threat and embarrassment and envy machine. You feel like you're cons…

The internet was certainly a lot lower stakes and fun in the 90s and early 2000s. We had fun taking over the mic and singing karaoke in Yahoo chatrooms, watching albino black sheep, and playing flash games on kongregator. Even early Facebook was just making funny groups and posting in each other's walls. None of those activities really had me envying anyone else. I remember the first thing that made me feel worthless…

And here it is, perhaps the actual issue: TED talks. And everything else, that is, all of the information of the information age, including social media.

Life for kids and everyone is drastically different from what it was just a few decades ago, because we have drastically different access and exposure to information, in general. This has changed the human experience.

I suspect it is because I have not looked hard enough, but I do not see enough about how much this has changed us. We try to pinpoint specific aspects, like social media, but I rarely see discussion about how just the raw exposure and access to information has changed us.

The value of knowledge is decreased, because it is accessible to everyone. This fact changed how people find their place in the world, find meaning and purpose, make social connections, etc. How much did this change us? I believe it has completely altered the human experience. Technology only hits this hard a few times every 1000 or so years. Gunpowder, printing press, electricity, internet. We're in the midst of a big shift now.

Here's an example: consider magic and sleight of hand. Until easily accessible information, the method of 'doing a trick' was arcane knowledge. This was the case for thousands of years. Knowledge was generally obtainable, but you had to go out of your way to get it. No adult believed in magic, but the fuzziness around the knowledge was enough to allow the audience to suspend belief that something wondrous happened.

This aspect of wonder is now rare. To what degree is the lack of access to wonder a root cause of the decline in teen mental health?

For what it is worth, I was that person in 2007 who warned everyone I knew about social media, for the exact reasons we are now discussing.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#802

Post by barrikad » Thu, May 05, 2022, 4:40 PM UTC

carlgreene wrote: post #649

Teens are being told the world is terrible by pessimists when there truly hasn’t been a better time to be alive. How do you expect them to feel? This is amplified on social media and shown with "proof" from all corners of the world. We've evolved from a place where hearing about bad news from the tribe was an advantage. It allowed us to adjust our life to take into account risks _seen_ by other folks in the tribe. On…

"For it must be cried out, at a time when some have the audacity to neo-evangelise in the name of the ideal of a liberal democracy that has finally realised itself as the ideal of human history: never have violence, inequality, exclusion, famine, and thus economic oppression affected as many human beings in the history of the earth and of humanity. Instead of singing the advent of the ideal of liberal democracy and of the capitalist market in the euphoria of the end of history, instead of celebrating the ‘end of ideologies’ and the end of the great emancipatory discourses, let us never neglect this obvious macroscopic fact, made up of innumerable singular sites of suffering: no degree of progress allows one to ignore that never before, in absolute figures, have so many men, women and children been subjugated, starved or exterminated on the earth."

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#803

Post by rapind » Thu, May 05, 2022, 4:43 PM UTC

themitigating wrote: post #790

rapind wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Best we can do is try to gradually prepare them for the horrific (/s) things they will be exposed to. I constantly worry they are too isolated from danger these days to be honest (compared to my childhood).

What about reducing the amount of horrific things that occur?

I try to.

Does posting this vague (pithy?) comment result in a reduction of horrific things occurring?

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#804

Post by juve1996 » Thu, May 05, 2022, 4:47 PM UTC

carlgreene wrote: post #773

WHA8m wrote: post #768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Climate change, increased Cost of living, etc. - Do you really need data for this? About the abortion thing, just visit the page of a random media outlet. It will be among the first 10 articles.

These are problems, yes. But how did they "wreck the world". It is these kind of outlandish takes that are pervasive on social media and give no context or relativism to the current problems of the world. Of course we have problems. There will always be problems. Instead focus on giving the younger generation confidence that they can solve the problems by being optimistic about these things. I'm not saying to ignore…

Some problems are worse than others.

I don't think anyone would choose to live during World War 2 or the great depression. The idea that all generations are the same and there problems are the same is just a worthless platitude. Never before in history has humanity had the knowledge or capability of ending itself like it does now. That can't be ignored.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#805

Post by tablespoon » Thu, May 05, 2022, 4:48 PM UTC

op00to wrote: post #798

Teknoman117 wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Through lawsuits and reporting, I learned that my childhood Boy Scout Troop and church was infested with pedophiles. It's really sad to see things like this. Boy Scouts was one of the best parts of my childhood. Both my parents were heavily involved - dad was the Scout Master, mom was the merit badge counselor for backpacking and other woodland activities, my younger sisters came on many of the trips. It served as…

I was emotionally and psychically abused in cub scouts, led by the pack leader because I did not buy into her specific image of evangelical Christianity. This was in a suburb outside of NYC in the 90s. the lack of oversight and vetting allowed this to proceed and turned more than a few kids off Boy scouting. I would send my kids to Baden-Powell scouting if that was an option.

> I would send my kids to Baden-Powell scouting if that was an option.

What's the difference?

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#806

Post by albedoa » Thu, May 05, 2022, 4:48 PM UTC

listless wrote: post #741

indymike wrote: post #481

Unpopular opinion: Social media is a great scapegoat, but it is not the source of the problem. It is where they go to communicate and cope. My sole qualification to post this: I have four kids that are either teens or in their early 20s, and one who will be a teen next year. Here is what I see out there: 1. Kids have little or no slack in their schedule. This means very little freedom, and very little time to work th…

I both agree and disagree here. My qualification is 3 teenage boys. 1. My kids have slack in their schedule. No, they aren't going to Ivy League schools. That's OK. They will survive somehow. 2. This is certainly true, but it's a complete joke to my kids. They aren't confused. They just wonder why all the adults are. Teenagers already think adults are incompetent. 3. This isn't true at my school. My kids have made eg…

> 2. This is certainly true, but it's a complete joke to my kids. They aren't confused. They just wonder why all the adults are. Teenagers already think adults are incompetent.

I was going to give the same pushback. My father-in-law is a teacher approaching retirement. He says that the only people confused by this are the parents. The kids are not confused at all except about what is so confusing.

It'd be interesting to know how OP is "seeing" this problem, whether the kids are relaying it literally or if OP is interpreting or what.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#807

Post by s1artibartfast » Thu, May 05, 2022, 4:49 PM UTC

WalterSear wrote: post #799

s1artibartfast wrote: post #797

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are objecting to the zero-sum aspect, not the competition. IF you need to make your married partner feel worse to make yourself happier, you are absolutely doing it wrong.

This is just silly. Teens aren't married. Competition for relationships is absolutely a thing.

Competition for partners is a thing but still not zero sum. The number of people in relationships is not fixed. You can increase the sum by starting a relationship that wouldn't otherwise exist.

Satisfaction you get out of it is obviously not zero sum as well.

If this is how teens think, it is no wonder they are miserable. Happiness is not zero sum, it can be created. In fact, it must be created

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#808

Post by juve1996 » Thu, May 05, 2022, 4:51 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #701

eldaisfish wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this ignores the harsh realities for life as a young person in the west. Sure, they are not scrounging for food nor is there widespread famine but politics is increasingly polarised. There is a climate problem looming and the youngest will deal with it, western citizens or otherwise. Economies are tanking, job markets are topsy turvy not to mention the real estate problem in a lot of western countries. These problems…

There is the matter of proportionality. There are challenges and problems, some worse than prior generations and some better. Putting the comparison aside. It is not healthy or helpful to teach children that they are doomed, the situation is hopeless, and their their future is destined to be miserable. I wouldn't tell my child "your life will suck, and you would be better off dead" every morning when they wake up. Pe…

Children aren't being directly told these things.

They are seeing it every day on blast from every source of media. It's not just kids. Its young adults choosing not to get married or have kids. The reality is grim.

Progress is relative. Even if the young generation isn't that bad compared to the 1700s, it's bad compared to what it could directly be related to, which is the previous generation and the era of good and plenty and western hegemony.

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#809

Post by barbazoo » Thu, May 05, 2022, 4:51 PM UTC

Shadonototra wrote: post #744

chimen wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what's your next move once you explained that and still find them "escaping" for hours in these meaningless apps? Do you have children? How many being teenagers? Can you explain in a "soft kind manner" to an addict that they should just quit? You can fight it pro-actively or re-actively. I prefer the former as, at least, prevents the addiction from even forming. Please identify a smoker in your close circle and e…

- make it illegal to gather data/track/serve ads in apps for users -18 - make it illegal to offer microtransactions in apps for users -18 there, you fix half of the problems, no longer companies will make their app addictive to teens then up to the parents to regulate screen time for their kids

> no longer companies will make their app addictive to teens

are you sure? why not leave these things out, make them addicted, and cash in once they turn 18

Re: Teen mental health is plummeting and social media is a major contributing cause [pdf]

#810

Post by gsibble » Thu, May 05, 2022, 4:52 PM UTC

indymike wrote: post #481

Unpopular opinion: Social media is a great scapegoat, but it is not the source of the problem. It is where they go to communicate and cope. My sole qualification to post this: I have four kids that are either teens or in their early 20s, and one who will be a teen next year. Here is what I see out there: 1. Kids have little or no slack in their schedule. This means very little freedom, and very little time to work th…

That sounds accurate but truly horrible.