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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#801

Post by anonporridge »

JamisonM wrote: post #654
slibhb wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a word for "blocking infrastructure" as a form of protest: civil disobedience. I'm sympathetic to (some) of the aims of the protesters but I think they've made their point and should go home. Still, this move by Trudeau seems like an overreaction considering there's been little/no violence.

Civil disobedience as I support it is a non-violent action. A lot of people cite these protestors as "non-violent" but there have been many incidences of protestors attacking or intimidating residents as well as intimidating the police to resist enforcement actions so I don't regard the current occupation in Ottawa as meeting that threshold. I think that anyone following closely would have to concede that police cond…

I'm not following these protests closely, but aren't you going to have a minority of violent people in any protest? That's just the nature of argry, large groups.

If that's your bar for "violent protest", then it's trivial for anyone to disrupt any protest by injecting interlopers to try to trigger an explosion. There's evidence that undercover police tried to instigate violence and looting in the BLM protests. Couldn't that be happening here too?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#802

Post by abstract_put »

sleepingadmin wrote: post #611
partiallypro wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be vaccinated and not support government mandates of vaccines. I don't get why people can't comprehend this. Trudeau's handling of the convoy is not popular, and he's underwater himself on approval rating (despite previously being fairly popular.) The polling on the protests ranges from 44% to 25%, that's not a majority but it's not a number you can just ignore. Foreign money floods into the US for movements…

Quoted post unavailable.

> very few people have gone to get 'boosted'

According to https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html, ~43% of eligible Canadians have a booster/3rd dose.

> Most people have realized the covid shots are worthless

How did you come to this conclusion?

> Canada is going in the other direction with increase to restrictions?

As far as I'm aware, Canada is stepping down restrictions as cases drop/ICU beds free up. Can you share where restrictions are being increased?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#803

Post by anonporridge »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #132
Jackim wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an exaggerated headline. Accounts being used to fund illegal activities can be frozen. Protesting is not and will not be illegal. Blocking critical infrastructure is illegal.

> "Protesting is not and will not be illegal." The trick is to categorize the protest as something else.

The trick is to categorize protestors as "domestic terroists", despite having not done any extreme violent actions, as the Canadian government seems to be doing here.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#804

Post by inter_netuser »

jsjsbdkj wrote: post #192
vorpalhex wrote: post #8

> The Emergencies Act is the modern-day replacement to the War Measures Act. It allows the federal government to force companies to provide services, it can require public protests to end, and limit mobility rights by preventing people from moving to designating areas. > > The act also allows for the military to be used as police, but several sources said that is not under active consideration. Not a good look for Tr…

There's no "loss of mandate". The Canadian people are overwhelmingly vaccinated and don't mind wearing masks. 90+% of truckers are fully vaccinated. Canadians re-elected Trudeau during the pandemic. The issue is that Ottawa Police were afraid of media backlash if they did any crowd control for the initial "protest" weekend. This allowed the occupiers to move in heavy machinery as barricades. When the weekend ended an…

Liberals ran on passports/restrictions and lost seats. The majority just took the injections to keep the job. Booster uptake is below 50%, because it’s not required.

Pretty much every business in deep-liberal cities at this point simply ignores restrictions.

What mandate? Seems like there wasn’t one in the first place.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#805

Post by rootusrootus »

hindsightbias wrote: post #748
klyrs wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BLM protests happened in a completely different legal jurisdiction. Trump couldn't invoke the Emergencies Act, because that's a Canadian law.

There was talk about the Insurrection Act. Ties to the Civil War probably made them a little weak in the knees.

Pretty hilarious how that turned out in the end.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#806

Post by rpeden »

_skel wrote: post #749
makomk wrote: post #24

Headline on the front page of BBC News right now: "Trudeau vows to freeze anti-mandate protesters' bank accounts" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60383385 This feels downright dystopian, especially if the move away from cash and towards centrally-controlled electronic payment systems is anywhere near as widespread in Canada as elsewhere.

It seems like these protests ought to be solvable by the police, using normal police powers, without resorting to emergency measures or doing things like freezing accounts and suspending truckers' licenses. Why not do the obvious thing: send the police in to arrest people who won't leave. Tow their trucks. That worked at the border the other day -- why wouldn't it work in Ottawa too? It's not like the Canadian police…

The Ottawa police refused to do any enforcement.

They claimed they didn't have enough manpower and needed help from the provincial and federal governments.

Why they were so poorly prepared when the convoy was broadcasting its intentions in advance is a great question, but it also doesn't help now.

The Ottawa Police Service abandoned the people of the city for weeks and now can't resolve the problem on its own.

So I guess the answer to "why go straight to emergency powers without trying to clear people out the normal way?" is because the people whose job it was to handle this the normal way raised the white flag about 24 hours in and haven't done much about it since.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#807

Post by FpUser »

epgui wrote: post #494
daenz wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The Canadian people are overwhelmingly vaccinated and don't mind wearing masks. 90+% of truckers are fully vaccinated. Then why require the mandate? I haven't seen any answer to that question besides the implied: "because we demand full compliance."

Because the few who don’t comply to public health recommendations/orders are responsible for the greater share of the economic burden of disease, and this burden was totally preventable.

Utter BS.

There were no orders but recommendations only in regards to vaccines. I understand you realize the difference between the order and recommendation. Recommendation does not require compliance.

And the burden was caused by lockdowns and complete absence of vaccines in Canada for a big while

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#808

Post by systemvoltage »

TravHatesMe wrote: post #544
sdsaga12 wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a YouTube channel that has been doing extended livestreams from the ground with both protestors and counter-protestors: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzGiDDKdphJ0GFvEd82WfYQ/vid... As I wrote elsewhere in this thread [1], I recommend taking a look at this channel or other extended livestreams to get a view from the ground if your impression of this event has been mostly shaped by articles. That recommendat…

You should be upfront about his political bias (which is in his best interest as it is his source of revenue). Don't get me wrong I like his videos but I also like hearing from the other side for good measure. Perhaps it is pedantic to point out that everyone has a political leaning but I think it is good to be upfront so that people can consider the biases of the input in order to make a more informed opinion. Or pe…

It would be nice for once if NYT/FOX wrote a positive story against their bias. It is not all __insert_the_worst_interpretation__.

I blame the big media for sowing so much division because they flatout refuse to write a positive story about the other side.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#809

Post by BeefWellington »

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #172
vorpalhex wrote: post #8

> The Emergencies Act is the modern-day replacement to the War Measures Act. It allows the federal government to force companies to provide services, it can require public protests to end, and limit mobility rights by preventing people from moving to designating areas. > > The act also allows for the military to be used as police, but several sources said that is not under active consideration. Not a good look for Tr…

He wouldn't have had to invoke emergency act if the Ottawa municipal police, the ones responsible for maintaining order in the city of Ottawa, did anything at all. They sat on their asses for weeks. The municipal leadership was non-existent, the ontario provincial leadership was non-existent, so what's left?

Luckily Ottawa will be electing new leadership in the coming months.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#810

Post by slothtrop »

anonporridge wrote: post #803
BitwiseFool wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Protesting is not and will not be illegal." The trick is to categorize the protest as something else.

The trick is to categorize protestors as "domestic terroists", despite having not done any extreme violent actions, as the Canadian government seems to be doing here.

The govt didn't coin that, the public did, by virtue that protesters are terrorizing the residents. Harassment, 100+db horns at night, vandalization, etc.
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