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Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

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Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#801

Post by baridbelmedar »

DocTomoe wrote: post #672
mediascreen wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why limit it to the EU? Shouldn't every country have their own AWS, Azure and Google Cloud? I think we underestimate just how difficult it is just to replicate existing services, let alone keep up with the innovation. It's like the Argentinian effort to stimulate its own computer manufacturing by banning Apple products.

> Why limit it to the EU? Shouldn't every country have their own AWS, Azure and Google Cloud? Careful, there is such a thing as network effect for knowledge. More fractured systems mean more different approaches means less aftermarket documentation means less people being able to work for you.

I happen to be European but with that said, I also get the feeling that many western European HN-users here seem to fancy the idea of having many small local service providers that have challenges providing anything beyond basic hosting.

And that totally fine, if you think European companies have no competitive disadvantage on the global market to being forced to use traditional VPS providers or build and set up everything themselves. But I imagine it'd be very challenging if other companies outside the EU can go to market faster, deliver better services for lower cost, etc. than their European counterparts because they can use American cloud providers like GCP or AWS.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#802

Post by forty »

jonny_eh wrote: post #758
javajosh wrote: post #744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much I want to say about this comment! First of all, it sounds like you had a terrible experience because you picked a bad ISP. I sympathize. But then you generalize from that and imply that anyone wanting an EU host will experience the same. Obviously that's not true - or do you believe no good ISPs exist in France? Second of all, why did you fork your code? Did you write your service to use proprietary…

> do you believe no good ISPs exist in France Nothing comparable to AWS/GCP/Azure.

There are AWS and Azure regions in France.

GCP should open one early 2022.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#803

Post by verdverm »

withinboredom wrote: post #660
verdverm wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If replacing Office / Workspaces is not a monumental task, why are there only two good options? Workspaces is only just becoming a viable replacement for enterprise because pivot tables are hard.

The big companies buy the little companies as soon as they look like they may be a threat. It’s not monumental or hard to compete with them.

I think you are underestimating the effort required to produce an suite of office products.

Libre office is a third option, but does it have much usage? Why or why not?

Could you sustain a development team capable of creating this with a limited market and revenue stream?

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#804

Post by iso1210 »

knorker wrote: post #663
leobg wrote: post #649

One thing I find super crazy is that, while making a big fuss about IP addresses and cookies, the EU forces any website owner to publicly share his full name, address and phone number on the site’s imprint. If you’re not a corporation or a professional who has an office address, you’ll have to supply your own personal data. Visible to anyone on the internet.

Oh? I missed this. What regulation is that?

There isn't one

There's a German law which says all commercial webpages have to say who runs it.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#805

Post by javajosh »

VikingCoder wrote: post #780
javajosh wrote: post #772

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm sorry, do you have any idea of the cost of doing these things? Oh indeed yes, which is why for years now I've been warning people to not write to proprietary APIs in the first place. It's a faustian bargain and sooner or later the bill is going to come due! If not because of legal requirements, then because MS or Amazon saturates the market, and has to increase revenue somehow . This is an example of where an ou…

So yeah, using HTTP to connect to a server that happened to be in the US... That's the thing that prevented us from selling in France. But thanks for lecturing me that "vendor lock in" was what killed our 6-developer team that was developing hardware, and computer vision, and 3D computer graphics, while developing a health care product under the tons of regulation that comes with that. Your arrogance is just stunning…

Hey, I feel your pain. Companies are like children to a founder, and you have described the heroic acts you've taken to save your child. It absolutely sucks to be in your position.

I think it's important to warn "parents" (or future parents) to avoid this particular tragedy, which I think is quite avoidable. I want to encourage people to question the orthodoxy around cloud, that everyone is doing it so its fine, and worse is better anyway, yada yada. It may be insensitive to use your situation to illustrate the downside of cloud vendor lock-in, but my motivation is not to look down on you, but to warn others about this very real, very painful outcome that they court when they make the popular choice.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#806

Post by dgudkov »

iamacyborg wrote: post #650
dgudkov wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would count clicks, not conversions such as downloads or signups that can require going on another page or doing some other action. Not everything can be put on one page. Also, Google Adwords counts conversions for visits for 30 days. Which means on the 1st visit from the ad campaign, there can be no immediate conversion (and that's OK). But if the same person returns to the website (not from the ad) and downloa…

> downloads Track hits on a post-download URL > signups Count signups in your DB with a source from a hidden field on the form > Also, Google Adwords counts conversions for visits for 30 days This stuff is mostly meaningless.

>Track hits on a post-download URL

It will be mixed with downloads that come from organic search.

>This stuff is mostly meaningless.

I disagree.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#807

Post by tyfon »

spiffytech wrote: post #781
tyfon wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU part cannot be owned by the US entity since the US government can compel the US mother company to have it's subsidiary hand over data. In fact this is how most of the companies operate already to cheat on taxes. The way microsoft did it for a while here in Norway was to license azure cloud stuff to a sub operator (EVRY) that is completely insulated except for the licensing agreement.

> The EU part cannot be owned by the US entity since the US government can compel the US mother company to have it's subsidiary hand over data. Is this true for ownership by individuals too? If I, an American citizen & resident, owned and operated a company registered to a European nation to serve my European customers (with European hosting), does that make me compliant? Does an American solo founder have a path to…

If you are subject to the cloud act in the US then you are not compliant or in anyway can be compelled by the US to hand over data on EU citizens.

As a private individual I suspect you would not have much to stand on if the NSA knocked on your door.

Another way to be compliant is to not collect PII.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#808

Post by zuzun »

paulcole wrote: post #62
fhars wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some courts beg to disagree with your position: https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/31/website_fine_google_f...

Oh, wow, didn’t realize 1 website had been fined $100. The legal water is boiling!

It's per claimant. That would be a $15bn Equifax settlement.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#809

Post by martijnarts »

jimmaswell wrote: post #641
cycomanic wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point is that "your" logs contain personal data about others. That data is theirs not yours. Moreover if you get asked about "your" logs by the US government you have to hand "their" data over to them, for which there is no legal recourse for the person owning the data. To make this more obvious, the EU is essentially saying that you can create a post service that routes all their letters through the US whe…

> That data is theirs not yours. I fundamentally disagree. You can't come to my house with a red hat then demand I never tell anybody you have a red hat and forget I saw it. That's absurd.

I dont think ownership of a red hat would be considered personally identifiable information under the GDPR.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#810

Post by forty »

VikingCoder wrote: post #667
xdennis wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, it only forces those providers to have a European presence. We're not fragmenting the internet by looking after our own interests. This wouldn't be an issue if Americans viewed rights (and in this case privacy rights) as belonging to human being as opposed to Americans citizens. The US's policy is what led to this: > Agencies shall, to the extent consistent with applicable law, ensure that their priv…

You are absolutely fragmenting the internet. We had PII on Azure. We wanted to do business in France. We had to fork our services, and run a full stack on a crappy provider in France. They charged a lot more, would take weeks of vacation with zero support for us. It was a freaking nightmare. EDIT: I love the responses I'm getting. People are in absolute denial that this does in fact fragment the internet. You may bel…

Agreed. But the internet is already fragmented. Each countries have their own laws and other countries no reason to follow them. All kind of content is accessible only in certain countries. It's also true for physical goods. I'm not sure why it's a problem.
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