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YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming medical misinformation

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Re: YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming medical misinformation

#801

Post by nickthemagicman »

atleta wrote: post #790
nickthemagicman wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ever think to yourself maybe the reason so many people are anti-(Covid)-vaxxers is not that they're brainwashed? Its that the anti-vaxx people may have a point? Many major scientific breakthroughs were made outside of the 'institution of science' and peer reviewed papers. Joseph Lister discovered antiseptic theory during routine medical practice and was mocked at first by other doctors who didn't want to swit…

You keep repeating yourself and don't respond to what I'm saying (even though I do address your arguments). I didn't talk about whether I thought anti-vaxxers were brain washed, so it's a strawman. And I've already explained in detail what's the problem with bringing up individual examples especially from the far past where some scientists were right against the majority. So I see 0 point in you coming up with more a…

Do you think Google and Facebook are putting every item that they ban through some sort of a scientific review were they carefully weigh the pros and cons of all the data of every side of a debate?

Like there's a bunch of older gentlemen with beards and pipes and philosophy phds sitting around a room discussing the cultural merits of the song wet ass pussy.

My best guess at how the censorship process works is there's a bunch of really low paid people that censor things based on a narrative page provided to them.

Re: YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming medical misinformation

#802

Post by sellyme »

tekknik wrote: post #767
sellyme wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medical disinformation? Because the typical music industry schtick of lying about how much money you have or how often you get laid probably isn't quite as bad as that one.

Listen to Eminem from the early 00s. And what’s so bad about medical misinformation vs say talking about murdering people? This is a rabbit hole and the left is gleefully throwing us down it.

> And what’s so bad about medical misinformation vs say talking about murdering people?

Predominantly that I'm not aware of a huge number of people who listened to Stan and then committed a murder suicide, but I'm aware of a staggering number of people who watched some absolute moron's YouTube video about COVID-19 and then decided to ingest horse dewormer.

I'm not sure how much of this difference is because music is performative (a song about murders is not typically trying to convince its listeners to commit murders), or how much of it is just because the demographic watching conspiratorial YouTube videos are way more gullible than people listening to Eminem songs, but it's pretty clear that medical disinformation is causing a huge amount of harm, and it's not at all clear that this is the case for songs with aggressive lyrics.

Re: YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming medical misinformation

#803

Post by atleta »

DrJones1098 wrote: post #800
atleta wrote: post #793

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are, of course ways we can measure progress. E.g. by measuring the results of applying science and scientific results to practical problems. Since we talk about medical sciences here, life expectancy is a good measure. So is being able to cure specific classes of diseases. And these are off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure someone into the philosophy of science could come up with much better and more general…

It sounds like we agree with each other. Science is imperfect and iterative. Yet with that knowledge you have come to the conclusion that the mRNA vaccine is perfectly safe after being developed in 6 months and tested in humans for only a year-ish? I follow your thesis but not your conclusion.

Oh, great. Yes, imperfect but improves iteratively. But I never said that the mRNA vaccine (or any vaccine, for that matter - we also have vector vaccines and even inactivated ones) is perfectly safe.

Indeed, what I was saying is that it's illogical to expect it to be perfectly safe. That would only make sense if contracting COVID was (proven to be) perfectly harmless. But the thing is that you are forced to make a decision and you don't have complete knowledge about the consequences of neither of your (two) choices. However, the (imperfect) experts say that the vaccines are way safer than contracting covid unvaccinated. And if anything, we both know that they have a lot better chance to be right than us.

> after being developed in 6 months

This doesn't really matter given the above (that you should listen to those who know a lot better), but the 6 months is far from being true. They started experimenting with the coronavirus vaccines back in 2003 and there was ongoing research ever since then. I've just seen a video from 5 years ago where a virologist guy talks about their bat coronavirus research at the local (Hungarian) science meetup.

The mRNA platform itself has been under development for over 3 decades, too. But again, you can go for adenovirus vector vaccines, which are a more tested technology. In some part of the world you can get inactivated vaccines (e.g. here, in Hungary we had one from Shinopharm), but they don't do that well against SARS-CoV2. However, the actual candidate for Pfizer's (well, BioNTech's) vaccine was done in something like 2 weeks, IIRC. But that was only possible because of the decades of earlier research. In part the mRNA technology itself, in part because they could skip the animal testing thanks to the SARS-CoV1 vaccines developed around 2003. (But the animal testing only protects the phase1 maybe phase2 participants, anyway. It's not that a vaccine sometimes takes years because they experiment on animals for years with a vaccine candidate that otherwise seems perfectly viable.)

Re: YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming medical misinformation

#804

Post by atleta »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #700
atleta wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> also well-established scientific consensus is not an ideal goal post . It indeed is. As a layperson who knows nothing about a field, not even a closely related field your best bet is to accept the scientific consensus. And by best bet I mean that that that is the choice that will give you the highest expected value of success. People keep pointing at the cases from the past (sometimes from the very far past, like w…

>>your best bet is to accept the scientific consensus you got it right.. it's a bet Science is not the ultimate source of truth, it is data with a risk reward attached that you can use for your own critical thinking I do agree with you though that it should be heavily weighted in your thinking. But people now are treating as an infallible religion that you can outsource your critical thinking to...which is scary imo.

> you got it right.. it's a bet

Sure. As you don't have certainty but you have to make decisions.

> Science is not the ultimate source of truth,

Science is our current best approximation of reality. But yes, it's not ultimate and we indeed do know that it's inaccurate. But we don't know better. And that's also important to keep in mind.

> it is data with a risk reward attached that you can use for your own critical thinking

Yes, but there's a trap here. It's OK as long as you base your decisions on your best knowledge (i.e. science). You can say that based on your risk profile (which you can estimate using science) the best decision (bet! :) ) for you is X. That's rational. However, a lot of people interpret similar claims as if it would be rational use what they think is "critical thinking" to override science. And that's a huge difference.

To be more specific. E.g. there is huge difference in saying that I believe that (accept the assumption) mRNA vaccines are safe with a 99999/100000 probability (i.e. cause cause serious side effects at most 1 out of 100 000 times) but I estimate my COVID risk lower, because the way I isolate myself (let's say you do have the data). I don't meet anyone, don't go outside, I'm 25yo, I work out, I don't have a condition, etc.

Vs. if someone says that "yeah, they say it's safe, but I don't think so, because this and that". Because that's not critical thinking. That's actually the lack of self reflection/critique. Even if someone reads up on some literature and they base their opinion on that, that almost certainly will just be cherry picking (it's hard to do better in a field someone knows nothing about).

> But people now are treating as an infallible religion that > you can outsource your critical thinking to...which is scary imo.

I don't see this. I probably see more people who are so afraid of making the wrong decision that they actually end up making the wrong decision :). Again, "critical thinking" sounds good, but a lot of time it's not critical thinking. Some people may feel insecure if they just accept someone else's decision or opinion even if that someone else knows lot better. And it may feel safe to make your own decision (which, almost by definition has to be different). But that's a bad intuition. If you have no better information to base your decision on than your best source (in this case, science) then your end results will just be worse by adding in your thinking (your inferior data sources and inference).

Re: YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming medical misinformation

#805

Post by _kbh_ »

tekknik wrote: post #797
_kbh_ wrote: post #787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right seems to generally start news sites that peddle in a lot of either half truths or outright falsities. Given this can you blame me for wanting a _reliable_ source.

And guess what the right views the left sites as having? Two sides to the coin.

Yeah but the difference is the mainstream republicans regularly push literal disinformation and false hoods to further the goal of the republican party and themselves. You just need to look at the last administrations attempt to literally subvert the election process and install themselves as president when they lost.

Re: YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming medical misinformation

#806

Post by tekknik »

_kbh_ wrote: post #805
tekknik wrote: post #797

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And guess what the right views the left sites as having? Two sides to the coin.

Yeah but the difference is the mainstream republicans regularly push literal disinformation and false hoods to further the goal of the republican party and themselves. You just need to look at the last administrations attempt to literally subvert the election process and install themselves as president when they lost.

Gonna repeat my same statement. You’ll figure it out eventually, I promise.

Re: YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming medical misinformation

#807

Post by jfrunyon »

mechanical_bear wrote: post #281
jfrunyon wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is saying that "it was lies that they stop the spread" different from saying "they didn't work"? He said vaccines don't work. You also said vaccines don't work. And that's just simply not true.

In some cases, they do not. But they work often enough and to a high enough degree of efficacy that we still should bother.

No.

In specific cases, vaccines may not prevent you from contracting a disease.

In general, vaccines do work. Even if they didn't work in your specific case.

Now, to bring this back around to being on-topic to the thread it's in, whether or not vaccines "work" is actually irrelevant. Either they do work and therefore stop the spread, or they don't work and they therefore don't stop the spread. A vaccine can not work without doing its job.

Re: YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming medical misinformation

#808

Post by jfrunyon »

yesbut wrote: post #289
jfrunyon wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Biden said the jab stopped the spread, it was lies. How you WOKE but you haven’t opened your eyes?"

> Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/ If I recall correctly, the Biden administration and the CDC both made public statements telling everyone that they would no longer need to continue wearing masks once they were vaccinated.

:O wow, viruses spread more in places where the virus is, without regard to where the vaccines are? Who would've thunk it!

Re: YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming medical misinformation

#809

Post by jfrunyon »

yesbut wrote: post #361
u801e wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could make the same argument about any commonly administered vaccine if only 58% of the population are vaccinated. There were a number of outbreaks of measles several years ago when the localized percentage of people vaccinated dropped below 95%.

In regards to covid-19 in particular: > Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/

And yet if you scroll just a bit further down you'll see a graph that shows significantly fewer cases in, say, counties with more than 60% fully vaccinated, compared to say, counties with 5-50%.

Almost like there's this spot where, once you have enough people vaccinated, the virus can no longer spread.

Hmm. Wonder why that could be. Certainly it couldn't possibly be exactly what experts have been telling us for the past century.

Re: YouTube deletes rapper's 'Let's Go Brandon' song claiming medical misinformation

#810

Post by jfrunyon »

JPKab wrote: post #463
enkid wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lyrics don't say the vaccine would stop the pandemic, it says it would stop the spread, which it does. You are changing the wording to make it seem more reasonable than it is.

Fully vaccinated people are less likely to contract or spread the virus. There's no question about this currently with the present strains. However they do not at all halt the spread of the virus. Israel is a good example of this. As I have said elsewhere in this thread I don't agree with the lyrics in that video. I find the video itself to be childish and silly but that would basically be 99% of rap and pop music in…

They do halt the spread. See also: polio, smallpox.

They have not halted the spread because of vaccine misinformation like this very video which you are defending.

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