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Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

annehelen.substack.com

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Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#801

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Au, current ceo at my work recently complained how frustrating it is having 16 y.o. s manage stores. Hmm wonder how that problem happened?

In a hot labour market you take much worse employees because you can’t get anybody better at the price you’re willing to pay.

[deleted]

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#802
post #780
post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their menu may not appear much cheaper in the US, but McDonalds is much more aggressive with price discrimination here. You won't find the same promotions, value menu, and coupons in Europe.

There is generally not a big coupon culture in Europe. Most people don't bother wasting their time. People with a money problem usually collect bottles for recycling purposes.

What are you talking about?

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#803
post #794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will never stop being amazed that European's think Europe is a Utopia that the rest of the world should look to as a model. I do not want the US to be Europe, that is nothing short of a dystopia for me a person that wants Individualism, and individual freedom. rejecting Authoritarianism and Collectivism If people in the US like the EU model soo much then i encourage them to expatriate to that location. Stop trying…

> I will never stop being amazed that European's think Europe is a Utopia I never said Europe was Utopia. All I said was, decent living . > that is nothing short of a dystopia for me a person that wants Individualism, and individual freedom. rejecting Authoritarianism and Collectivism Ah yes. Says the person from a country where charities stop giving aid to poor African countries and redirect their aid to Americans.…

I've never known anyone here in the US (friend, coworker, family member, acquaintance etc - Internet forums don't count) who has moved to Europe permanently. I know that many do, obviously, I just don't one personally. At the same time, I personally know many Europeans living here and have seen many more coming over the years.

I can't find hard data, but probably we should not say that "those who have the means to, do". It's likely more of "a tiny percentage of those who have the means to, do".

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I will never stop being amazed that European's think Europe is a Utopia I never said Europe was Utopia. All I said was, decent living . > that is nothing short of a dystopia for me a person that wants Individualism, and individual freedom. rejecting Authoritarianism and Collectivism Ah yes. Says the person from a country where charities stop giving aid to poor African countries and redirect their aid to Americans.…

I've never known anyone here in the US (friend, coworker, family member, acquaintance etc - Internet forums don't count) who has moved to Europe permanently. I know that many do, obviously, I just don't one personally. At the same time, I personally know many Europeans living here and have seen many more coming over the years. I can't find hard data, but probably we should not say that "those who have the means to, d…

> It's likely more of "a tiny percentage of those who have the means to, do".

Yes. However, the main reason I phrased it the way I did is that "if you don't like it, move to a different continent" is a very arrogant approach.

An American barely surviving on minimum wage is very unlikely to move to Europe.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#805

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on, hang on. By definition, age is not a class, because by definition, /everyone moves out of that class/. Your entire proposition is faulty from the foundation!

Not by choice though. If we can get younger or older by choice on a whim, I think your point would stand.

It doesn't matter! You could change class by a windfall inheritance or a sudden bankruptcy. Class does not bear choice as a prerequisite.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#806

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

If a business model relies on the exploitation of the vulnerable, it deserves neither our sympathy nor our collective subsidization.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#807
post #796
post #793

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>and they are an issue in many big cities Housing is an issue in big cities largely due to government policies that both limit inventory (building and zoning regulations) and limit profitability (rent control) that make is extremely undesirable to create new housing. The solution to this is NOT government housing but less government regulations about building new housing

> The solution to this is NOT government housing but less government regulations about building new housing Where and when did this work? Have you any examples?

Not who you replied to, but I believe the current popular answer is to refer to Japan. Numerous articles have been written regarding how they managed their housing crisis by deregulating zoning and building permits. You'll have to read up on it yourself, it's beyond me to summarize as it's a complex topic and the model is not perfectly exportable. Partially for "real" reasons, such as Japan has so many earthquakes that many houses are not intended to last for 100+ years which affects the home economy. Partially for social reasons, e.g. wealthier nations view homes as investments (more-so than as a place to live, like we view an apartment), and people push tons of local/state/federal rules to ensure their investment always grows in value. The easiest way to make the value grow is to ensure there are no more homes e.g. NIMBY

One article to get you started (nothing special about this one, it's just the first I saw from google): https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-housing-crisis-in-japan-ho...

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#808
Maybe we should think about building a society that’s less financially cutthroat. I’m not in the financial position of the potential restaurant workers discussed in the article, but I can’t imagine wanting to work in a typical chain restaurant if I was. Not because of the work itself, and I’m not trying to downplay the value provided by restaurant workers either, but because I would feel that it was limiting my potential future earnings. Most chain restaurant jobs just don’t seem to offer real opportunities for upward mobility and their unpredictable shift scheduling can make it difficult to work or study outside of them.

Obviously, I’m coming from a position of privilege here, but putting myself in the shoes of a potential restaurant worker, assuming I wanted to put myself in a better long-term financial position, I would simply choose to not be a restaurant worker and study/apprentice for something else instead. I’d imagine that actually working in a restaurant teaches plenty of useful life skills, but unfortunately I’m not sure that experience really translates into a marketable resume. Unfortunately, in a competitive job market, there’s an opportunity cost associated with time spent in jobs that don’t enhance one’s desirability to potential employers.

Now obviously not everyone has the option to simply forego low-paying work and become a student/apprentice, and I’m sure some people really like working in restaurants (even fast-food chains), so I’m not arguing that restaurants should simply disappear. Instead, I think we should work to reduce the competitive nature of our economy so that cheap, convenient food (or similar services) isn’t effectively being subsidized by the existence of a permanent economic underclass with no career options beyond low-paying, so-called “low-skill” work. Fast-food workers should be there because they want to be there, not because it’s their only option.

American society is built around work and constant competition for better-paying work - that’s certainly not unique to the US, but the high-levels of income inequality and winner-take-all job market dynamics sort of are (at least among countries with similar social + economic profiles). We should try to create a job market where people can choose full-time jobs they enjoy and excel at without worrying about whether they can afford to have children, maintain stable housing, or be able to retire some day. To do that, I’d expect that we need to reduce the power differential between the restaurant/business owners complaining about a lack of people willing to help them make money for low wages and the potential employees they’re complaining about.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#809

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never known anyone here in the US (friend, coworker, family member, acquaintance etc - Internet forums don't count) who has moved to Europe permanently. I know that many do, obviously, I just don't one personally. At the same time, I personally know many Europeans living here and have seen many more coming over the years. I can't find hard data, but probably we should not say that "those who have the means to, d…

> It's likely more of "a tiny percentage of those who have the means to, do". Yes. However, the main reason I phrased it the way I did is that "if you don't like it, move to a different continent" is a very arrogant approach. An American barely surviving on minimum wage is very unlikely to move to Europe.

Interestingly, America is one of the best places to be if you are wealthy (part of the motivation on this thread). So it's also unlikely for a wealthy American to move.

Believe it or not, a lot people, in poverty or otherwise, really like the unique things in this country and most would rather have it this way than to move to Europe (which has its own share of major problems despite being a cool place overall).

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#810

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economic theory says yes. If prices of A go up and B is a close substitute, some people will shift from A to B. I doubt anyone has studied that rather specific question empirically, though, and even if they had it's not an easy question to study. So theory and common sense is our best bet when it comes to forming expectations here. I'm sure there are empirical studies about how demand shifts from A to B for other exa…

> some people will shift from A to B. 1. Is this number at all significant? 2. Should theory prevent working Americans from having a decent life given that empirically restaurants and cafes are plentiful in Europe and are filled to the brim with customers?

1. Perhaps. Difficult to know the extent exactly. My guess would be yes, given theory, but we'd need a natural experiment to find that out.

2. This particular thing isn't really an argument against minimum wage, although I personally am not automatically in support of it for other reasons.

I can see an argument that it creates poverty by making unskilled workers unable to compete with lower skilled labor overseas for manufacturing jobs. Effectively it's a ban on their ability to work (if their value add is less than the minimum wage) and make a living and can possibly go some way towards explaining the black youth unemployment rate. This robs them of their ability to get a foothold in their economy from which they can stabilize and level up. Why would a manufacturer keep their operations in the US if they have to pay minimum wage? Of course they're going to be inclined to move overseas where it's cheaper, especially if it's a low margin business.

It's also rather intrusive and authoritarian, if two people want to get together and exchange one hour of X for $Y then I don't see that as any of your business, but this is more a point of personal values and it's more productive to focus on the utilitarian part of the argument.

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