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US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

bbc.co.uk

801–810 of 1001 posts

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#801

"The incidence of cerebral venous thrombosis (CVT) varies between studies, but it is estimated to be between 2 and 5 per million per year. A recent study in the Netherlands with comprehensive ascertainment suggested a much higher incidence." https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/STROKEAHA.116.0... So the six reported cases in 6.8 million vaccinations seems low. Glad I read about all this because I got the J&J…

My wife says this is not about exercise, while living a healthy lifestyle is good, apparently this specific condition causes clots to form in the brain itself as a result of low platelets.

CVST with Thrombocytopenia is the name.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#802
post #768
post #702

The risk of dying from a blood clot after receiving the J&J vaccine is six in 6,800,000 (6.8M). The world population is 7,900,000,000 (7.9B). If everyone on the planet got the J&J vaccine tomorrow, and if it is the cause of the clots, then 6,971 people would die from the vaccine. Yesterday, Covid19 killed 8,803 people (according to worldometers). We don't want anyone to die from vaccination, and we don't fully unders…

I went to the emergency room for earth shattering headaches (no history of headaches like this) after getting the J&J vaccine last week. I mentioned I’d got the vaccine and asked if it was possible the two were linked. The doctor did everything but actually roll his eyes and thought that the headache being caused by the vaccine was ridiculous. I bet if I went today he wouldn’t be so dismissive.

Did you report it to VAERS?

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#803
post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The different efficacy rates of the vaccines do not directly imply anything about spreading covid. A vaccinated person can have no symptoms of covid and still be spreading (This may or may not be true). Folks are still studying how effective the vaccines are at preventing spread.

> A vaccinated person can have no symptoms of covid and still be spreading Aren't the efficacy numbers from the phase 3 trials based on giving periodic PCR tests to everyone that was participating in the trials? And not just based on people self-reporting symptoms? It would be very surprising if there were a new kind of asymptomatic carrier that emerged only for people having taken certain vaccines in which they woul…

I don't think the fact that you might be still spreading covid when vaccinated is enough of a reason to continue lockdown. As long we are continually getting people vaccinated, we should be fine for returning to normal.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#804

Okay so I want to make something very clear here. The rule is to put it very very simply, is you can ship any drug that is approved but you have to list the side effects. This drug was approved under an emergency order and this side effect was not listed. This will get paused long enough for the side effects to be updated and then used again. The arguments about “well the birth control pill has a higher risk” are usi…

> This drug was approved under an emergency order and this side effect was not listed. Sadly, this is the case. The German regulator's FAQ explicitly called this out; they are not interested in determining the path that saves the most lives, they are simply following the process that checks all of the boxes that the regulations require. In the EU this regulatory pause of AZ has likely killed thousands of people. > Th…

> The German regulator's FAQ explicitly called this out; they are not interested in determining the path that saves the most lives, they are simply following the process that checks all of the boxes that the regulations require.

A drug regulator should do its job, which is following established rules for approving and recommending new medicines. Not invent new rules, not push experimental drugs when new problems are being discovered on the go. Advocating for "greater-good" trade-offs and risks is a political effort, the regulator should be immune from political pressures.

I'm glad people there prefer to err on the side of going with established rules and caution.

If what you want is experimental drug being accessible to as many people as possible as soon as possible, you should advocate for the option to bypass the regulator and letting the people decide for themselves.

Do not advocate for corrupting the regulator.

> In the EU this regulatory pause of AZ has likely killed thousands of people.

I don't know how you came to that conclusion, but even if so, how many thousands of people would be eventually harmed or killed if the pause wasn't introduced? We don't know, because we are discovering properties and effects of the vaccines on the go. The data and estimates we have are based on short-term experience with the vaccines. They will change.

In treating people for illness it is a long established rule that "first, do no harm". And vaccine does not even help the patient with any illness - it is rather to help in case the patient would get one in the future. For many people, getting vaccinated has zero to negative benefit.

Nobody is entitled to get a fast-tracked rubber stamp to push vaccines on people. If you want to take experimental drugs, I support your right to do so, however I expect you let other people decide for themselves, including the regulators.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#805
post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not really true, we give lots of drugs IM because the muscle is highly vascular so it generally shoots out all over the body really quickly. Ie want to take down a patient with Ice (crystal meth) induced psychosis? IM. Also, it’s hard to miss most of the time. If you want something to sit around for a long time, you go for less vascular areas. (Ie insulin for diabetics, subcut abdominal fat) IM is preferred be…

IV injection of adenovirus gene therapy vectors is well known to cause thrombocytopenia.

[deleted]

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#806

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a vaccine for a disease that has killed over half a million people in the US over the past year Serious question, how many of those people would have died in the past 12 months if they didn't get COVID? The number is most likely not 500,000, but it also probably isn't 0. Is it most likely something insignificant like 5,000?

> Serious question, how many of those people would have died in the past 12 months if they didn't get COVID? The number is most likely not 500,000, but it also probably isn't 0. This can be answered using “excess mortality” data. Studies have shown during that time period, about 600,000 more people died than would have been expected compared to deaths in the previous year. The official covid death count is likely an…

> The official covid death count is likely an undercount of deaths caused by covid, because a number of people died from covid related complications and got recorded as pneumonia, Alzheimer’s, or heart disease/attack/stroke related deaths.

That's a theory. Meanwhile, we know that many places are classifying anyone who dies within N days of a positive test (N is typically 30) as a "covid death", regardless of actual cause.

I can guarantee that not all of those people died from Covid-19. Point being: there's likely to be overcount and undercount, for different reasons.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#807
post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That runs contrary to good public health policy for C19 where even the fully vaccinated should follow many precautions such as masking in public and limiting number of households in close contact.

If you believe good public health policy requires that there be restrictions on gatherings even where everyone is fully vaccinated, then what do you see as the path back to full normality? Or is this just how humanity has to live forever now?

I think the "return to normality" is when the number of new cases reported each day drops to almost nothing and deaths are uncommon. Currently, in the U.S. we're about 70 thousand new cases a day, which is about where we were at the height of the second wave in mid-summer. Deaths are around 750 a day.

I think we'll get to normality eventually, but it may take longer than anyone has patience for, and that will only push it out further as people give up on social distancing and masking.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#808
post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not really true, we give lots of drugs IM because the muscle is highly vascular so it generally shoots out all over the body really quickly. Ie want to take down a patient with Ice (crystal meth) induced psychosis? IM. Also, it’s hard to miss most of the time. If you want something to sit around for a long time, you go for less vascular areas. (Ie insulin for diabetics, subcut abdominal fat) IM is preferred be…

IV injection of adenovirus gene therapy vectors is well known to cause thrombocytopenia.

Right, thanks, I wasn’t aware.

Time periods seem off (5-14hrs) in mouse models compared to what’s being seen here though, which seems more like an immune reaction rather than a response to the antigen/delivery system

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#809

Okay so I want to make something very clear here. The rule is to put it very very simply, is you can ship any drug that is approved but you have to list the side effects. This drug was approved under an emergency order and this side effect was not listed. This will get paused long enough for the side effects to be updated and then used again. The arguments about “well the birth control pill has a higher risk” are usi…

I don’t understand why you have to pause then restart. Just update the side effects as you go. Or pause for the affected groups.

Distributing the new document only would not be responsible.

In this case, the new side effect kills people. Very rarely, but if you belong to some unlucky group, you're screwed. It is better to figure out which people are endangered. The recommendations and documents have to be good for everybody, not just for the good statistics.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#810
post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish people applied this much caution to the virus. Who knows what cancers it causes 10 years down the road.

Do any corona-family viruses cause cancers that we know of?

I don't know. But HPV and Herpes definitely can. Here's some more:

https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/infectious-agent...

It takes quite a long time to prove the link between a viral infection and a cancer that develops decades later, so it'll be a while before we know for sure.

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