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Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#801

The whole Parler thing is very interesting to me. Many people point out that Twitter, Facebook, and other social networks have the same TOS violating content that Parler does but I wonder if this will come down to a "reasonable attempt" situation like Youtube copyright. Youtube and later on Twitch got into trouble with the RIAA and other major media groups because Youtube allows users to upload copyrighted material.…

I think this is getting lost in these threads. Parlor's intent and as you say 'reasonable attempt' at moderation.

It seems that Parlor explicitly designed their moderation to fail and not actually moderate anything.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#802

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

I have not yet concluded whether I believe in free speech without limits, but I can at least say with confidence the following:

- Freedom of speech is of extremely high importance for any free society and should not be taken for granted

- Removing it in any capacity should be done with extreme care and free of any bias one way or another, with a lot of thought put into any future consequences

- Speech without a platform isn't speech at all

- Private companies' interest should have little, if any, control over the ability of the public to speak

- Just because a private company is legally allowed to do something, doesn't mean they should

- The marketability of speech (for financially or politically) should have no bearing on whether it's allowed or good

I don't know if all of this is being upheld. I think a lot of interests are at play here. I have no easy answers or even recommendations other than that everyone think about what objective barometers they really think makes speech allowable or not.

(Edit: list rendered real bad)

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#803

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

It's a wake up call for republicans. Stop blaming fake news and alike.

Internet became liberal minefield swamp and you haven't done anything about it besides blaming.

Build the venues to reach people. Invest in media that speak your language.

Counter all fake news with strong and convincing media you control.

Do it before their "peaceful protestors" will burn the rest of our cities.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#804
post #763

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

The problem here is that private companies are doing something that only democratically legitimized state authorities should be doing, deciding what is allowed or not allowed. Otherwise we are always dependent on the good will of the companies without democratic control.

actually, according to rand paul, they are doing what private companies should be doing and not what democratically legitimized state authorities should be doing.

As I understand him, private companies should decide for themselves who they serve and if we think they are behaving immorally, convince our circle not to give them business. It's not the government's job to say who they can and cannot serve.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/rand-...

    PAUL: I like the Civil Rights Act in the sense that it ended discrimination in all public domains, and I’m all in favor of that.

    INTERVIEWER: But?

    PAUL: You had to ask me the "but." I don't like the idea of telling private business owners — I abhor racism. I think it’s a bad business decision to exclude anybody from your restaurant — but, at the same time, I do believe in private ownership. But I absolutely think there should be no discrimination in anything that gets any public funding, and that’s most of what I think the Civil Rights Act was about in my mind. 

    INTERVIEWER: But under your philosophy, it would be okay for Dr. King not to be served at the counter at Woolworth’s?

    PAUL: I would not go to that Woolworths, and I would stand up in my community and say that it is abhorrent, um, but, the hard part — and this is the hard part about believing in freedom — is, if you believe in the First Amendment, for example — you have to, for example, most good defenders of the First Amendment will believe in abhorrent groups standing up and saying awful things and uh, we're here at the bastion of newspaperdom, I'm sure you believe in the First Amendment so you understand that people can say bad things.It’s the same way with other behaviors. In a free society, we will tolerate boorish people, who have abhorrent behavior, but if we're civilized people, we publicly criticize that, and don't belong to those groups, or don't associate with those people.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#805
post #167

Reading Amazon's reasoning, tech companies are basically setting a standard that if you want to have user-generated content, you must have professional moderators. This seems like it will be a barrier to innovation.

I don't it's that far.

It's make a reasonable attempt to prevent illegal / violent content and don't purposely create a system meant to fail and flout that's the whole intention of your app (and in Parler's case brag about it to the NYTimes )

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#807
Part of what makes this situation interesting/concerning is that it's not hard to imagine that censoring unwanted or problematic speech might become technically infeasible at some point in the not so distant future.

I'm not at all a crypto maximalist. However, let's assume that the technical questions about the viability of large-scale, highly performant distributed apps running on blockchains get worked out. Assuming we eventually do have something like a de-centralized Facebook running on something like Ethereum, how could we ever expect to avert situations like this in the future by moderating content? If that content was stored on an immutable blockchain, it might be impossible to moderate. The only solution would be to somehow take down the entire blockchain network.

Related to this, there seems to be something important about the interactivity and responsiveness of a social media platform that's connected with how useful it could be to organize movements like this. Maybe, if it turns out that blockchain-based solutions can't get around having the built-in latency of something like a block time, then dapps will never be viable alternatives to centralized social media platforms.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#808

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech

You feel this way because you agree with their political views. But that's not how free speech works. What if these platforms banned Joe Biden, because they correctly pointed out that he has used his right to free speech before to destroy millions of lives by unleashing a mass incarceration bill, which to this very day disproportionately affects certain racial groups based upon "immutable characteristics of their person" [1]?. Or if they had canceled him over what appear to be highly credible allegations of sexual assault [2]? Would you feel the same way?

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcpO329xTGI

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA_Wt22f6gs

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#809
I’ve said it before: I find this highly disturbing. Especially the sense in which it is coordinated. Amazon, Google and Apple acting together to shut down a platform that has been very clear about its stance on content moderation from the outset.

Free speech is not just any value. Sooner or later you will find yourself on the side of an issue where your speech will be attacked.

Then there is the always present double standard. Why did Twitter allow “Hang Mike Pence” to trend last night? Where are the suspensions and permanent bans?

Again, sooner or later we will all find ourselves on the other side of the double standard.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#810

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

The problem is not free speech, the problem is anyone can have millions of people notified about what they say. If you limit followers to 50k or don't allow a message to have a reach of more than 50k, then you will solve part of the problem without touching free speech!
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