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WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

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Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#801

Post by avaika »

krageon wrote: post #709
jcalve wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it would force people to use better alternatives such as Signal or Telegram.

Signal is run by someone who hates repeatable builds and open platforms. Telegram is to the russian government what whatsapp is to the US government. That is to say, both options are bad. Of course it is conceptually better to spread your information over many separate information silos so that your data is harder to correlate. That should not be the bar we aspire to though.

Ah. That's why Russian government was trying to block Telegram for over two years. Good to know.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#803

Post by teekert »

dtech wrote: post #800
teekert wrote: post #781

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WA is not particularly good, it's just that I don't know anyone who doesn't use it (in the Netherlands), even when you want to contact helpdesks it is sometimes the preferred way. I mean, we have this in many streets: [0] Without kids I could see myself getting away with not using WA, but with kids you are really setting yourself up for a very hard time (and prepare to be judged by other (annoyed) parents and your ki…

It has completely replace texting in NL and some parts of Europe too, and I mean that literally.

At one point I had unlimited data (2011-ish?) for 5 eur/month and a text was 20 euro cents per 160 chars or so... So I guess providers wanted SMS to disappear here.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#804

Post by dreen »

toprea wrote: post #771
kar1181 wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is precisely the dilemma in a nutshell. You have a choice but it's a bit like voluntary solitary confinement. Especially during a lockdown.

Just thinking out loud here, as I was considering something like this. I can also not give up the WhatsApp account due to the social pressure. What if I would use a second phone, a cheap one, used only for the whatsapp (and some other essential but privacy invasive apps). I would not have that second phone always with me, but it would provide me access to the social network I need without feeling tracked or providing…

I've recently switched to using Whatsapp in an emulator, which is kinda similar. I even almost got a virtual camera working so I can share my desktop screen via whatsapp call (would be super useful for parent tech support). Laptop cameras should work fine though.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#805

Post by dtech »

herbst wrote: post #713
kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

I am in europe, switzerland and plenty of friends in austria. Yes many of my social circle have whatsapp but none is using it exclusively as it was some years ago. People have the choice and use it. Not sure what is holding other circles back? I havent had whatsapp in 4+ years and only rarely have to fall back to SMS

What is the alternative are your social circles using? SMS is the only alternative with a wide install base and the experience is inferior to WA,Telegram etc.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#806

Post by Ygg2 »

ravingraven wrote: post #691
kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

>Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities [...] Our generation is reinventing the wheel here, our ancestors had exactly the same problems with the power, water, gas, telephone and rail networks (at some point in time, all those were unregulated and privately owned) and did exactly that. Critical infrastructure needs to be heavily, regulated if not outright publicly owned.

I disagree. Facebook, Twitter and Google are ephemeral utilities. They will probably be replaced by another company.

Privatizing them will just let someone else come along and Embrace, extend, extinguish them.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#807

Post by jmnicolas »

lrvick wrote: post #631
jmnicolas wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suggest something that lets you use any client/platform you want I lost about half of my contacts when migrating to Signal, do you really think I can make them install some random app that may or may not work? They already complain that Signal isn't as polished as Whatsapp.

Those that won't respect your ethics are not your friends. I lost many of my contacts moving to Matrix but earned a lot of new high value ones that share my worldview to continue building a decentralized censorship resistant internet.

> Those that won't respect your ethics are not your friends.

Yeah right. I am not RMS, with lock-downs, curfews, social distancing etc I'm already isolated enough so I'm not losing my remaining contacts for some moral high-ground.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#808

Post by agilob »

lrvick wrote: post #511
0x10c0fe11ce wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what should self sentient person do, just lie down and accept the erosions of our blood won freedoms? No thanks. I have right now all my company talking to thousands of customers explaining this mess to them and helping those who need to switch to Signal. So yeah, fuck you FB!

Signal is no better. You fell into one marketing trap with WhatsApp and have now fallen for another. Signal is another private entity with complete control of the servers and end client binaries. The fact they happen to open source the code is kind of moot since no services are allowed to write alternative implementations, no one can run their own servers or prove what code is running on Signals servers, nor can anyo…

Element is really slow on mobile, Signal and WA show my list of conversations in fewer than 5 seconds. Element needs ~10 seconds just to load UI, then 10 more seconds to sync list of active conversations, then I enter into a conversation and it needs between 2 seconds and 2 days to synchronize e2e keys. I can literally leave the conversation open, phone in charger for night and it still can't sync message. How do I explain to my parents that their message from 2 days ago "call me when you're free" didn't arrive because Element couldn't read it? They changed name 3 times already, changing APP ID, forcing me to reinstall it on all devices, update all my bookmarks in browser, having to sync all keys between all devices, not only on my devices, but also my family members who were using it. Their initial-setup of the app is really bad experience. Sometime I can NOT have two devices online at the same time to login and send message from new third device. It's cool on browser, I had nothing bad experience on mobile + web.

Signal is simply best because it works as SMS client AND encrypted messages client. Best UI/UX, one app to rule them all, consistent behaviour, not owned by FAAMG.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#809

Post by benhurmarcel »

codemac wrote: post #294
frereubu wrote: post #22

I'd love to give up WhatsApp, but network effects are key here. I tried moving my extended family off WhatsApp onto Signal a couple of years ago and it failed miserably because the app wasn't nearly as easy to use, and they had all their friends on Whatsapp. Has anyone here had any success moving a large group of people onto something like Signal or Telegram? If so, do you have any tips?

Signal - moved my immediate family to it, and now have a few friends on there as well. It had some rockiness maybe about 3 years ago, but with their new group implementation and some other small tweaks I find it just as easy to use as whatsapp, albeit it a little uglier. #1 complaint is the coloring - incoming messages should be high contrast, outgoing should have the background color. For some reason signal does the…

For info, the colors (and whole style) in Signal are the same as iMessage.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#810

Post by aasasd »

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #223
frereubu wrote: post #22

I'd love to give up WhatsApp, but network effects are key here. I tried moving my extended family off WhatsApp onto Signal a couple of years ago and it failed miserably because the app wasn't nearly as easy to use, and they had all their friends on Whatsapp. Has anyone here had any success moving a large group of people onto something like Signal or Telegram? If so, do you have any tips?

I've used Signal for years, and for most of that time only had about three people who also used it in my contacts. My wife recently got her entire extended family to use Signal. She has always refused to use WhatsApp. They all love Signal now, and use it all the time. However, this was during a family crisis. During the Covid lockdowns, many companies I know used Signal as their preferred non corporate communication…

So the solution is more crises.
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