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Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

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Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#801

Post by xienze »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #672
mc32 wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what is the alternative? The problem is diametric opinions end with two people (no company involved). What is the company to do to get people with opposing views to “get along”? Let’s put up Tibet. Some people will have strong opinions on one side and another set will have strong opinions on the other side. (Most people will be indifferent). How can the company manage that tension among people who work for them w…

Good example :-) The 'hard' solution is to teach people to communicate about topics on which they disagree. An easier solution would be to have employee moderators. A combination of providing communication classes and moderators with a dose of involuntary enrollment might be a middle ground. For a long time Google generated hundreds of thousands of dollars per employee in revenue which they have been banking for the…

> The 'hard' solution is to teach people to communicate about topics on which they disagree. An easier solution would be to have employee moderators. A combination of providing communication classes and moderators with a dose of involuntary enrollment might be a middle ground.

The easy solution is to just do what has always been common sense: don’t talk politics at work. Because even the if there is healthy debate, at the end of the day people are petty about people on “the other team.” For example, I’ve gotta imagine being outed as a Trump voter at Google has to put a huge target on your back.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#802

Post by wutbrodo »

major505 wrote: post #208
wutbrodo wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so hilariously wrong that I don't even know where to start. Google's culture was predicated on hiring intelligent, emotionally-continent adults. Free discussion of politics wasn't banned during my time there because everyone was capable of understanding precisely the opposite of what you're describing: that differing views on the world exist and are attributable to more than just whether someone is a good or…

Basically: One person: smart. A lot of people: dumbass idiots.

I think that's usually used to describe group dynamics, but my model here has less to do with that and more to do with having to lower the bar for each individual, because scaling hiring massively (in an increasingly competitive labor market) is difficult without lowering standards.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#803

Post by wbronitsky »

malandrew wrote: post #770
JaRail wrote: post #759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He offended a broad class of people. Women shouldn't have to pick and choose who they feel comfortable working with around the office. Or worse, be forced to work with that guy. Once he expressed views like that, his fate was sealed. You don't punish the victims.

Let me modify your statement so you can realize how absurd and sexist it is: > Men shouldn't have to pick and choose who they feel comfortable working with around the office. It is just as ridiculous if you make it about race: > [Black|Asian|White|Latino] people shouldn't have to pick and choose who they feel comfortable working with around the office. This is the fatal flaw of modern day progressives. They make ever…

I don't think your statements are as self evident as you think they are. You are personally attacking the poster above you, and then just spinning words around to make a point you agree with. We understand you agree with yourself; would you care to help us try and agree with you?

Personally, I agree with your statements. I do not see the issue that you see with wanting all people to be comfortable in their workplace. James Damore outright stated that he believes that women are genetically inferior at the job he does. I don't grasp how people miss how destructive that is.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#804

Post by weberc2 »

rollinDyno wrote: post #367
weberc2 wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, and Google is letting those people know that there may now be consequences for their disruption. If those people still think their disruption worthwhile, they're free to proceed.

I think this is very telling, as a symptom of a diseased democracy. People wouldn't take their fight to these environments if democracy was working, because they'd have faith in the due processes of government. But once they start thinking things aren't working, they'll go to their next seats of power. In this case it's the workplace where they can influence their coworkers and the policy of a big tech corporation. T…

A healthy democracy isn’t meant to prop up unpersuasive ideologies.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#805

Post by [deleted] »

JaRail wrote: post #759
fortran77 wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they never punished the woman who leaked that internal memo. I thought that memo was foolish and short-sighted. I don't agree with it. However, it would have been better solved by a manager first asking him "do you really think it's a good idea to post this at work?" and having him tone it down than trying to publicly shame him and get him fired. Google picked the wrong side on that. They should have made an exam…

He offended a broad class of people. Women shouldn't have to pick and choose who they feel comfortable working with around the office. Or worse, be forced to work with that guy. Once he expressed views like that, his fate was sealed. You don't punish the victims.

[deleted]

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#806

Post by mancerayder »

What a busy topic!

My first reaction (to the general topic) was, "Well, of course they had to put a stop to that. And international message forums with many participants? What a recipe for disaster."

But then I had to be honest with myself: I'm at work at least 45 hours a week (not at Google, but in tech). My commute time is 45 minutes each way. So out of 11-12 hours of not-me-time, you want me to completely keep my trap shut? That's a hard ask.

Here's an example. Earlier this week, I'm on my way to the subway and I see a fight, and I also see piss on two sets of seats on both sides of the subway car. Then I'm at work and my colleague, unprompted and as I come in, remarks how many more heroin-addled people there are in Midtown, Manhattan than he's ever seen. I then blurt out a rant about the Mayor, criminal justice policies I consider wrong (such as the push to lower incarceration without consequence), and a few other things that were aggressively opinionated and political, in an open office environment. Shortly thereafter I somewhat regretted it (but I never expected any consequences).

We're only human.

It just needs to be channeled. Keep it to your local work friends, or at the bar, or whatever that ISN'T on a message board.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#807

Post by xienze »

lagadu wrote: post #760
xvector wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this was common workplace discussion!? This seems like a disaster waiting to happen. I don’t know why you’d want to introduce the divisiveness of politics to your workplace.

That's only a US thing. In the rest of the world (well, I can only speak for a few european countries) discussing politics is normal office chat. Why wouldn't you want to discuss current and thought-provoking issues with your peers?

I get the feeling people are much closer politically in other countries than they are here, which makes the debate a bit more polite. Remember, to half the US population if you voted for Trump you’re a Nazi. Not a lot of room for people to debate you in a serious manner or even think of you as a human being when those are the stakes involved.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#808

Post by SllX »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #636
SllX wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a decent chance this centuries old authoritarian method, which is more like millennia old, is actually the best way of dealing with it. Humans are more or less the same as a few millennia ago. Our technology is more advanced, we’ve more or less covered every corner of the planet, we have birthed billions of humans and built millions of organizations of every stripe, and dealt with as many management issues as…

I don't disagree, but I will contrast that with my later experience at IBM (when they bought Blekko). IBM had at the time 400,000+ employees, so more than four times the employee base of Google. IBM is over a hundred years old at this point so have been doing this about five times longer than Google has. In IBM's case they came at it from the opposite direction. Fifty years ago there was practically zero horizontal c…

You raise an excellent point, and going over-totalitarian is just as likely to crush innovation as anything else.

However, I think taking an authoritarian stance on politics, religion and so on in the workplace, so long as it is done in a respectful manner and puts everyone on the same level, is completely appropriate.

When you are a group of ten, and that’s your entire company, you can get away with a lot. Everyone is going to know each other, maybe a little more intimately than some of them would prefer. Your CEO might also be your drinking buddy and a good wingman. That’s the nature of a small organization.

At 2K, things don’t have to be quite so intimate, you don’t have to know everyone by face and name, just get along with them well enough to do your jobs.

I’m not going to try and guess where the tipping point is, but at 99K or 400K, there isn’t a lot of difference between the organization ability you need. Everyone has their own ideas about Life, the Universe and Everything, some teams might get along better than others, but politics and religion and the like have led to actual wars between smaller masses of people. If you have 99K on your payroll, not all of them are going to like and respect each other. Not every team is going to have perfect cohesion with every other team.

You still want civility. Every one of those 99K or 400K people has their own ambitions and dreams and reasons for getting out of bed at whatever time of day they crawl out of bed. But there is a time and a place for it, a whole wide world and life outside that of your employer’s little world, where not everyone is necessarily on the same payroll.

Absolutely if you can build an internal social network for your workers, that’s great! If they want to debate politics outside of work, that’s great too! It is still entirely appropriate to moderate that network, and draw a few hard lines where you think it is appropriate.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#809

Post by malvosenior »

justforyou wrote: post #640
malvosenior wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The discourse around the James Damore memo, as divisive as it was, felt like it still led to a broader understanding of the negative perspectives women in tech had to deal with constantly. Damore was fired for his contributions to this "conversation". Hardly just. > particularly the ones who felt it was worth staying and using their influence internally to push Google toward creating a more just world. How about ju…

Search is an intensely political issue, we're just used to ignoring that particular aspect.

Search is entirely a technical problem. There are literally no politics involved.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#810

Post by joshuamorton »

einhverfr wrote: post #715
dragonwriter wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In urban California, among software developers, you are likely to have one or two political views represented at most Centrist neoliberals, progressives, libertarians, and “I need active government support because private parties are not actively supporting me” anti-SJW meninists, among other political cliques, all seem to be vocally present in significant numbers among urban California developers. I'm not sure whi…

Fair enough but it still does not reach a fair cross-section of society.

But is it fairer or less fair than the cross section of society represented by executives and board members who would be policy making if employees did nothing and just followed instructions?
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