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What I Heard from Trump Supporters

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#801

Post by croon »

austenallred wrote: post #676
Mithaldu wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By supporting trump (and thus pence and gop) one implicitly agrees with people dying due to cuts in health services. (And yes, pence has already done health-related things whose only consequence were deaths.) Do you feel being fired and blacklisted is a worse consequence than suffered by people impacted by support of trump (and his people)?

So by supporting Clinton would you implicitly be agreeing to bombing children in Syria? That's just a silly line of reasoning

Trump has already killed American children in Yemen.

However incompetent I think he is, I doubt that was deliberate though, and is besides the point.

Every president will inevitably make military decisions that will lead to civilian casualties. It's never nice, and it's never "okay", but it's also extremely difficult to avoid, in a conflict.

Repealing ACA is purely political, with very real effects on tens of millions of Americans losing coverage, benefitting only rich people.

It's not an unavoidable side effect. Just fucking don't do it. Your comparison is ludicrous.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#802

Post by croon »

hkmurakami wrote: post #410
rdl wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't always like this. Silicon Valley was a lot more diverse/tolerant in the first dotcom boom and until ~2006 or so than since. It really went off the deep end circa the Brendan Eich incident (2014), and then the most recent Presidential election cycle. The "Ex-communicate Peter Thiel" movement was the point of no return, and when I decided to flee permanently. It doesn't seem to be as bad even in other equally…

Both the Eich and Thiel situations were downright appalling in how they mirrored the exact kind of Witch hunt and ostracizing that liberalism historically and morally should be against. The fact that people didn't seem to grasp the hypocrisy and danger of their actions made it even more chilling.

I'm more inclined to suggest that liberals are getting tired of being the diplomatic party and reaching across the isle [1] [2], and are starting to play the same game. I'm not saying tit for tat is constructive, but going by this election cycle, dirty seems to be what's working.

[1] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/06/yes-pol...

[2] https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/2014/06/n...

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#803

Post by ZeroGravitas »

sgift wrote: post #799
Mithaldu wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The frightening part about your post is that you might not even be trolling.

Why is this frightening?

Presumably because it's trying to equate San Francisco liberals venting about Trump supporters, with the legal oppression of women and minorities with the full backing of the state. A level of false equivalency that is terrifying for people who are slowly realising that a large number of Trump supporters have lost all touch with reality.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" -- Voltaire

59% of Trump supporters believe the last president of the United states was not a citizen of the US, and therefore ineligible to be president.

66% believe that Obama is lying about his religion and is secretly a muslim.

Put together, that is some real "Protocals of the Elders of Zion" stuff. No wonder they want to ban muslims, they actually believe the country has already been secretly taken over by them. There's multiple bestseller books that claim exactly that. People pushing this conspiracy are all over the Republican establishment and Trump and other public figures drop blatant dog-whistles that just sound like stupidity to normal people, but confirm these paranoid fantasies for believers.

Trump actually said on television that Obama actively helped the Orlando shooting. And people in this thread are like "well, I like his tax policies" and "people are so rude to supporters of Fascism, that's the real fascism!".

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#804

Post by sgift »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #803
sgift wrote: post #799

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this frightening?

Presumably because it's trying to equate San Francisco liberals venting about Trump supporters, with the legal oppression of women and minorities with the full backing of the state. A level of false equivalency that is terrifying for people who are slowly realising that a large number of Trump supporters have lost all touch with reality. "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" --…

> Trump actually said on television that Obama actively helped the Orlando shooting. And people in this thread are like "well, I like his tax policies" and "people are so rude to supporters of Fascism, that's the real fascism!".

The question I ask myself is where does being "rude" end and oppression of your opposition start. I'm thinking about this in the broader context of multiple elections happening here in Europe this year and what is the appropriate response.

On one hand I'm strictly in the camp that if you say shit people should be fully allowed to critize you for it. On the other hand I'm not sure this is a helpful strategy to further the wanted end.

That aside, this sub-thread is about the fine line where the power relations change and those who weren't in power before now start to abuse that power themselves. I've seen multiple calls to legally oppress people that voted for Trump. That's as wrong to me as legal oppression of women and minorities. I don't know if there's such a thing as "good oppression", but I have a feeling the answer is no.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#805

Post by ZeroGravitas »

meat_fist wrote: post #650
austenallred wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but I honestly don't believe that's true. It feels like politics has become something beyond politics in San Francisco. It's not "people have different ways of viewing things, and boy do I think you're wrong," it's "if you think that _____ or voted for _____ you are my enemy."

I think you'd be surprised at how non-white males are treated in the Deep Red, is again my point.

I'm surprised he'd be surprised given what the official Mormon church position on black people used to be until relatively recently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#806

Post by ZeroGravitas »

sgift wrote: post #804
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably because it's trying to equate San Francisco liberals venting about Trump supporters, with the legal oppression of women and minorities with the full backing of the state. A level of false equivalency that is terrifying for people who are slowly realising that a large number of Trump supporters have lost all touch with reality. "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" --…

> Trump actually said on television that Obama actively helped the Orlando shooting. And people in this thread are like "well, I like his tax policies" and "people are so rude to supporters of Fascism, that's the real fascism!". The question I ask myself is where does being "rude" end and oppression of your opposition start. I'm thinking about this in the broader context of multiple elections happening here in Europe…

The Republican party literally stood in court and argued that it was okay for them to prevent Democrats voting! That it would only be illegal if they targetted black voters with voter suppresion efforts because of their race, but targetting them because they know they would vote Democrats was entirely legal. They do this all over the country and have done so consistently for decades and continue to do so today (actually more so as federal restrictions were removed by the supreme court).

Maybe one day we'll need to worry about women and minorities suppressing white men, but we're not there yet.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#807

Post by ZeroGravitas »

boona wrote: post #315
jstimpfle wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of the "CO2->Global Warming->Catastrophe" thing is it that you don't buy? What is "false consensus"? Are you in a position to judge the conclusions supported by a vast majority (that's only my perception, but how likely is it to be completely mistaken?) of experts? What brings you to the conclusion that global warming could be a hoax? Do you have a reason for not trusting the experts? Who could be intereste…

Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert, wrote an interesting piece on this topic. http://blog.dilbert.com/post/154082416051/the-non-expert-pro...

Scott Adams doesn't believe in fossils and thinks that wishing can makes things true.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Scott_Adams

It's hardly surprising therefore that he has issues with Climate Science and supports Trump.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#808

Post by 14113 »

gizmo wrote: post #626
true_religion wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are so fucking tired of identity politics. Oversensitivity, calling everything "-ist" to win an argument, trying to tie racism into everything. I've thought of this and wondered is it actually possible that racism and sexism is rampant? In Eastern Europe, racism is utterly rampant (dismissal of achievements of people based on their ethnicity, wide spread belief that people of a certain ethnic type are 'bad for…

Organizations like Black Lives Matter also draw inspiration from the 60s Civil Rights movement, but they have concluded (correctly, in my view) that relentlessly opposing and calling out racism is enormously effective. Black Lives Matter is so successful that their message has reached almost every single American.

What I worry is whether the message is being recieved in the right way. Are people hearing and understanding or are they hearing and reacting to it badly?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#809

Post by sgift »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #806
sgift wrote: post #804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trump actually said on television that Obama actively helped the Orlando shooting. And people in this thread are like "well, I like his tax policies" and "people are so rude to supporters of Fascism, that's the real fascism!". The question I ask myself is where does being "rude" end and oppression of your opposition start. I'm thinking about this in the broader context of multiple elections happening here in Europe…

The Republican party literally stood in court and argued that it was okay for them to prevent Democrats voting! That it would only be illegal if they targetted black voters with voter suppresion efforts because of their race, but targetting them because they know they would vote Democrats was entirely legal. They do this all over the country and have done so consistently for decades and continue to do so today (actua…

> Maybe one day we'll need to worry about women and minorities suppressing white men, but we're not there yet.

Do you think we should wait until we are there, so we can again react to problems instead of preventing them? People stated that they want to do this.

Does this make the things the other side did any less horrible? No, multiple things can be horrible at the same time.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#810

Post by camel_Snake »

phkahler wrote: post #559
naravara wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Too bad that's not actually a core principle of the democratic party - see what happened under Obama, See what? That he reduced the deficit during his tenure? >and see how little one of their biggest fiscal mouth pieces (Paul Krugman) cares about debt or deficits. Obama took office during an economic depression. This is how macroeconomics works. You spend to goose demand when the economy is down and you tax for the…

>> See what? That he reduced the deficit during his tenure? http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_chart.ht... What?

A new President's budget doesn't take effect until around September the year he takes office. Just like Trump isn't responsible for the current deficit right now, it's disingenuous to attribute most of 2008 to Obama.
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